Question Regarding Antibiotics, Really Could Use the Help Before Tomorrow

its very hard for members here to give specific advice one way or another on this Forest as we are all so different and everyone reacts so differently to antibiotics

some have little or no reaction at all - others have very strong reactions to even tiny doses
only you really know your body and how its likely to react.

tooth extractions with infection present are not trivial however and so i can see good reasons to take the antibiotic suggested - or at the very least not dismiss them out of hand.

the only real advice i think we can usefully give is to try to be rational and systematic with your decision making process

by which i mean - rather than endlessly roll the idea around in your mind - often flip-flopping from one fear to another and getting stuck - as is so easy to do.
Instead, make yourself sit down with a piece of paper and try to work through the decision systematically.

for instance - write down all the likely good and not so good outcomes that are possible for taking the antibiotics and then for not taking them.
do not focus on only the negative possible outcomes - like huge negative reactions - but spend just as much time listing the positive possible outcomes.
when you have a good list of both you can try to go through and rate both how likely and also the magnitude of these outcomes are
for instance - stopping a fulminant infection in your jaw is a pretty good outcome that is fairly likely to occur and will have a big impact
while having a minor stomach upset for a while while taking abx is pretty likely - but also only of minor impact
of course no one can tell you how likely you are to have an extreme negative reaction to an antibiotic - only you can really asses that
but this approach will allow you to look at the issue in the round and make a balanced decision

there are many decisions in life where we cannot know the outcome in advance and have to deal with the inherent uncertainty
but after following a systematic process like this - at that point you have done your best to steer a rational course through the decision - and what ever happens after that is to some degree no longer worth worrying about as you can do no more to impact the outcome.

often making yourself go through a systematic process like this stops the rumination, brings a different perspective and a clear decision you feel comfortable with emerges.

good luck!!

Thank you both for getting back to me. Admittedly, I still have yet to take them. I'm feeling mixed. I wake up with a bit of pain and symptoms and then it gets worse throughout the day. I was feeling a bit sick last night, but it's so confusing. I can't really differentiate things anymore since I always feel sick as is. But does that mean taking them is best? Makes me wonder. I also wonder if it would even be that bad to take them. If I can handle Ibuprofen, can I handle some antibiotics? Regardless if they're different, I am managing the ingredients. Not sure why in these last 6 months I have been able to eat mroe and accept more into my body, but I can. I guess my only worry is that this infection will spread. The blood supply is cut off from the root canals so how are they truly supposed to heal since it's nearly impossible to clean that area out? Makes me wish I could have went to a biological dentist but they have to be SO far away.

Also, now my surrounding teeth are hurting a lot. The ones on the bottom right (underneath where I got my extractions) didn't even get an x-ray and they're hurting quite a bit. Not to mention the one behind where I got my 3 teeth pulled hurts, but I assume that could be gum, but there is decay as well as some white above the tooth which could indicate an abscess and something forming. I wouldn't put it past these people to do this so I keep coming back. They're a terrible dental practice, but they're pretty much all I've got to do this without being completely tossed to the side or waiting for months.

Regardless, I need to figure this antibiotic thing out. Is it hurting more because it's spreading? Maybe. I hate this whole thing. I feel like a case that keeps getting put to the side, probably all because I look "young and healthy" to most. I just don't feel like I have enough info. I really feel like I don't know what to do. I'm not afraid of some symptoms. I am afraid of causing something that will cause me to lose my mind for months, cause extremely high heart rate, extreme dizziness beyond control, etc. My symptoms ar already bad enough, but I also don't want to die either. I am just so sick of suffering, I really wish I knew what to do.

I probably sound like an idiot, but I still have yet to take one. I feel sick, but then other times I don't (like the middle of the day). I wanted to avoid this but it makes me wonder if it would help heal any of my other issues like my chronic sinus problems or the infection getting into my blood. I am honestly confused about this these days. I am not trying to act like my problems are worse, but my symptoms do get really bad, but I am unsure if it's a reaction at this point, or from the infection. This is what I get for listening to doctors and people for years, now I feel like it's impossible to trust anybody. Even various functional naturopathic doctors have failed me. Maybe I just have terrible luck, or maybe I am explaining my symptoms poorly.

I tired to comapre and it's like down the middle for me.

1. Take it (Augmentin 875 MG, 7 days. twice daily) and get stuck in worse symptoms... maybe? Or maybe I won't feel anything and it'll just pass, or even get better. I fear of me going through what I did in 2021. I never want my heart to race like that for over a year straight again, oh please, no.

2. Don't take it. Risk getting sicker... maybe? Or let my body fight it off, considering my body is already in overdrive - but is that because ion this infection specifically, or because it's one of the factors and IF it is only a factor, will I pay the price by dealing with the mast cell activation symptoms (if I even have MCAS, which is extremely hard to truly diagnose).

Both have potential to hurt me. It's a hell of a thing to deal with. How is it that people on here can take all of these antibiotics and deal? That's not to say it's not hard, I am just wondering, because it makes me wonder how it's possible? I am stuck. I feel unwell right now too. Not the absolute worst but my throat does feel funny. I just wanna get better. I'm so tired of all of the crap I've been through in the last couple of years, not to mention the years prior to when this really hit with a bang. Sorry if I am a pain to people, but you've gotta understand my point of view, my trust has died out. I need like 4,000,4238 points from people with logic to make this happen. I need support. I need people to tell me why it is/isn't bad so I can make sense of it. All I do is screw things up these days anyways. I mean, just look at me and where I am now. Can't believe it's really come to this.

I feel for you, it's just for me it feels so different in the sense that the smallest of things mess with me. I used to be the type that could take antibiotics and maybe get a bit of diarrhea and that's it. Then years went by and my body just really crapped out - no pun intended, not even crapting you.

But I feel like why I'm so confused is due to the fact of no longer really feeling in a circle. Like, a group of people that completely get me. I know everyone is different, but at least in 2021 I felt like I fit in here more, and in 2018 I fit into the benzo withdrawal world. Now it feels like I have this... thing, and a lot of my test results have never seemed right either. Positive babesiosis, yes, but then nothing else in the lyme world (of course those tests aren't always right, I could have it, but I might not, all depends on symptoms for many). Then the mold, I have it in my home, but not much. I have a very clean home overall, but is it truly mold when I have been fine in this house for years? Or is it more of a piece of the puzzle. Then there's when I went out and did these tests for my chronic inflammatory response syndrome. On paper, they're not 100% like the typical CIRS patient. However, I do have high compliment C3a and even higher compliment C4a (indicating extreme inflammation) which could mean a lot of things, but very likely autoimmune disease of some sort, and by most standards, you mix a HLA factor like HLA B27 (which I have) and mix it with that response, it means it's probably activated, and it's always happening. I get no breaks. Of course, it could mean mold/lyme/co-infections, it could mean MS, a form of cancer, etc. but likely indicates infection. You know what they say: if it looks like ____, smells like ____, tastes like ____, it's probably ____. But is it? I feel like I have been doing this thing where I have been jumping through tests and issues all of my life and I am 30 years old now. I got sick at such a young age, and honestly, I was fine living as sick as I was before, no matter the struggles with the anxiety, depression, the constant tiredness, etc. These days though, it's aways like I am just hanging on by threads with this vertigo/dizziness stuff all of the time. I rather wake up with a few hours of sleep, feeling like death, rather than get good rest and feel constant over-stimulation all of the time. It used to be the opposite when I was younger. It's truly crazy how this is, but I guess that's the autoimmunity thing going on. I don't think the name matters, but we can call it MS due to the fact that it's the closest symptom set I have, but even then, why? We don't have that in my family. Nobody has a lot of the stuff I have in my family. But you know what? A lot of people with an MS diagnosis actually have lyme. They actually have root canals and amalgam fillings, or heavy metals caught up in their body. They have this susceptibility, then they have the unfortunate way of getting sick and can't ever figure it out. It's crazy, because I feel that way, but I can't find my crowd entirely. But I can't help but be thankful for the community here because I see all kinds of people from all walks of life, so I am willing to accept that I am not the only one like me, but it's ironic because I feel there's no one else like me either. It can be challenging trying to get the right answer and really it's all up to us as we are our own advocates st the end of the day. The part that worries me is how bad my mental health has come to. I feel like I am going to screw myself up if I don't make the right decision, and I guess I just want a break. I feel like people (particularly medical professionals) just pass me off. I know there's always more, but they never care to look. One even told me that it's a waste of taxpayer money to do labs for my vitamins because he didn't think I needed them, when it was for neurological issues, so obviously that stuff is important and comes into play. Stuff like that. Not quite sure why I wrote all that, but there it is. I like to explain every detail, and that's just me. I get to wrapped up in too many details, and I believe it comes from my illness and exacerbates it beyond what it already was before.

But anyways, my point is this: We aren't different as alone, but we are alone as different.

I guess it just confuses me further when some doctors say take it, some day don’t. I feel like explaining my situation is different due to this being a root canal and the stand on them being there’s no blood supply to that spot. It still hurts after days, so it’s hard to know what I’m feeling, although it is white and seeming to clot well, it’s concerning how much pain I am in when I wake up, not to mention some slight bleeding is still occurring. But just now it stopped. It’s day 4 now and I simply worry. As I said, thinking for myself has become so tough. Not to mention, I don’t entirely think I was prescribed this for prevention. I’m not to sure if they want it as a preventative or because they see my symptoms as a problem and to take it to clear things up as this is/has already been happening. Very confusing. Especially when it feels like I am very sick one moment then I’m not as bad, and it goes in and out, over and over. I have tried to write it out on paper. I’m still lost. Then there’s the fact of not knowing if antibiotics would be helpful because of something within that realm, like if I had a chronic sinus infection, and augmentin is good for that. But I also wonder if that would put my brain through something due to how it affects the serotonergic system, GABA, etc.

Honestly, I might Be okay, but I’m so deep into this stuff. I wish I didn’t know so much. It’s really screwed me up to know what I know. It’s so much, it’s uncomfortable. But like many, we want to know more and more due to what’s happening with us. But I’m like a whacko person who has spent too many hours in it all. It’s really come back to bite me. I guess I’ll have to think further into it.

Forest said...
I have a tooth/teeth/gum infection. Just had 3 teeth pulled. They really want me to take augmentin 875 mg for 7 days, twice a day. I have Babesiosis and Mycotoxin Illness (on paper). Confused recently by symptoms as things have been changing over time. Also possibly have Mast Cell Activation. I am confused on what to do. I really don't wanna hurt ot go insane. I fear taking them will make me lose my mind. I feel stupid for it, but it's scary. Back in 2021 when I was on some various supporting supplements for Lyme, I couldn't follow through because I was becoming very symptomatic, but I feel like taking these could really be beneficial. How do I get over this hump when eating most things would cause me symptoms like intense dizziness/worsening vertigo (MdDS), racing thoughts and panic, worsening confusion, gut issues, flatulence, honestly 40 more symptoms and you get the point. I just wanna feel better. I mean, damn. I've been through a lot in the last 12 years of my life. These last 2 have been insanity ever since getting diagnosed with even more crap.

What do you think? Help me out with this, please. I don't wanna lose my head over this stuff.

I tried augmentin and clindamycin for my tooth and gum infections. I didn't know at that time I had lyme, bart or babs. I had the worst type of panic attacks and anxiety and depression out of nowhere as soon as I started the augmentin clindamycin. That was bk in like 2010. In 2021 I was prescribed it again. The panic attacks, anxiety and deep depression hit again. It lasted a whole 6 months until it calmed down. I can't even imagine a herx lasting that long. My llmd says he doesn't recommend using clinda or augmentin because of the side effects and says they can make you feel crazy literally

MedicalNerd said...
I tried augmentin and clindamycin for my tooth and gum infections. I didn't know at that time I had lyme, bart or babs. I had the worst type of panic attacks and anxiety and depression out of nowhere as soon as I started the augmentin clindamycin. That was bk in like 2010. In 2021 I was prescribed it again. The panic attacks, anxiety and deep depression hit again. It lasted a whole 6 months until it calmed down. I can't even imagine a herx lasting that long. My llmd says he doesn't recommend using clinda or augmentin because of the side effects and says they can make you feel crazy literally

This is what I was getting at, things like this. I am not sure I have ever had a direct reaction like this to Augmentin or an antibiotic before, but I did start feeling crazy out of nowhere before. I do fear of losing it. I am just so sick and am desperate. It's interesting considering this is one of the "safest" forms of antibiotics, but it is used in Lyme disease. It's also considered "rare" that this happened, so I am sorry you went through that. Although, I don't always think it's that rare, I just think that people don't see or understand it from our perspectives. Only people who have been through it actually know.

Now I am curious if you have any positive notes on it? Did you end up getting well and doing well on other antibiotics? Are you treating this now? Do you have appositive lyme test? For me, I do not. I have a positive Babesiosis test, but nothing else. That might also be confused for a blood infection of some sort, based on the literature. But then again, I took antibiotics and did just fine with them years ago. I was also on prescription benzodiazepines though. I do have them now, but fear they won't work, just like they stopped working in 2018. Took them, not a thing happened. I was still feeling stuck. Makes me wonder if things are the same or if they changed, and I really just wanna make the right decision. As I've said before, everyone is different, but as I've just said in my last comment, influence can make changes in people. It brings a comfort to know what I am working against. Then I ask questions to better formulate an answer. I feel like it helps create realistic expectations.

I am just curious how you feel now? Was it simply a bad experience for you on that?

Again, I want to say (as a positive thing) I was able to take 1 week's worth of doxycycline in 2018 for pneumonia, and was fine. I am not sure if it healed whatever underneath directly, but I had been stuck in this CNS issue at that time. I am not sure how I will react to Amoxicillin and the Clavulanic acid in it though. I think more of the fear comes for being in a place that seems "good" (not actually good but my CNS is more stable in 2023 than 2021). So from you and others giving me this kind of info, it makes me a lot.

Lastly, when I do go into a flare or whatever, absolutely nothing helps. Not a drug or sweating or anything. I am like that and that is it. Everything from mast cell supports to lyme supports, they only make me worse. Have diazepam, but likely won't work either, or even if it does, that becomes a major issue due to it being one of the worst things to ever come off. So yes, it makes me absolutely terrified. At least I'm being honest and I will always speak my mind. With that said, I cannot thank you and everyone here enough for your valuable time and information.

Post Edited (Forest) : 5/27/2023 1:06:09 PM (GMT-8)

but Forest - there is NO WAY to get back to the life you want without making clear decisions about things that we cannot know the outcome of before hand.
procrastinating or letting chance takeover reduces your chances of that happening dramatically

you will always find reasons to doubt this direction or that direction if you look for them.

that is not decision making - its decision paralysis caused by an upset mind -likely due to the illness itself - and not due to too much information or too little.

with this illness, and actually with all tough decisions in life - we have to deal with the hand we are dealt - not the one we wish we were dealt - ( more information - less information - not having learned the things we have learned - not having the experiences we have already had etc etc etc ) - these are all distractions from the job in hand.

what i and others are suggesting is that you just make a decision - good or bad you will not know till later (or maybe never - as we can never know what would have happened if we did the other thing)

this is just a fundamental feature of life - we are explorers in a very uncertain world - we can either fear every new thing we encounter or think we might encounter - or we can accept uncertainty is a part of life - commit to steering our ship as best we can in the face of adversity - and treat what comes as a journey of exploration.

so its just a case of - stop torturing yourself - take control - make a firm decision and move on - however hard that is.

as Dude points out - if you don't actively make a decision - by not doing so you have actually made the decision you have been torturing yourself with - but by default.
so what are you actually worrying about - its either make it yourself or it gets made for you by the march of time.