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Andrographis vs Japanese Knotweed?

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Posted 7/27/2023 9:03 PM (GMT 0)
Curious what would be the potential differences in Andrographis versus Japanese Knotweed…

Seems like they are both powerful. Andrographis I seem to have potentially had herxheimer reactions to in the past, but never Japanese Knotweed.

Could it be that Andrographis is actually more powerful than JK? Or perhaps my body just doesn’t like Andrographis? Seems like JK is also considered very strong, but I’ve never noticed getting a herxheimer reaction from it.

Anyone have insights or experiences to share regarding these?
Posted 7/28/2023 11:40 AM (GMT 0)
Buhner write extensively on this in his books

he describes knotweed as primality an anti-inflammatory

there have since been some studies showing the crude ethanoic extract ( tincture essentially) had direct antimicrobial effects against lyme and Babesia - but note that this was in vitro and used the extract directly in the culture - it hadn't passed through a digestive system or first pass liver detoxification as it would in humans - so we don't know if it works this way when taken orally.

i always found it pretty mild - i could take large doses and it didn't seem to drive herxhiemer reactions- but others have reported even small doses did for them.
its hard to know if these were more MCAS like reactions, fallout from killing or changing members of the gut microbiome etc etc

ref Andrographis - he originally included it as there was some reports in the literature that it was effective for syphilis - and it was hoped to be a true antispirochetal herb for borrelia - but he later removed it from his protocols due to a lack of clinical effectiveness - and the known allergy type reactions experienced by around 1% of people taking it

i found it good for CNS inflammation - and for bile production

of the two it does perhaps have the higher probability of being antimicrobial for some other bacteria
Posted 7/28/2023 11:53 PM (GMT 0)
Interesting. Well that doesn’t sound super promising for either then.

What would be even strong than both JK and Andro?

Feels like of the two Andro is the stronger one, at least for me though.
Posted 7/29/2023 4:03 AM (GMT 0)
I believe Andro to be a heavier hitter, but I did always combine to two. After using both for two years then stopping , I can no longer take Andro as I now am allergic . I am really bummed about this and feel that any herbal treatment is not as effective without. But the game goes on and I am hoping to try a different herbal combo. Any thoughts from anyone on alternative herbal heavy hitter please let me know.
Posted 7/29/2023 10:10 AM (GMT 0)

Lightlife said...
I believe Andro to be a heavier hitter, but I did always combine to two. After using both for two years then stopping , I can no longer take Andro as I now am allergic . I am really bummed about this and feel that any herbal treatment is not as effective without. But the game goes on and I am hoping to try a different herbal combo. Any thoughts from anyone on alternative herbal heavy hitter please let me know.

That’s too bad. Allergic in what way? What do you experience from it
Posted 7/29/2023 10:35 AM (GMT 0)

NorthCountry said...
Interesting. Well that doesn’t sound super promising for either then.

What would be even strong than both JK and Andro?

Feels like of the two Andro is the stronger one, at least for me though.

some people have got better from Buhner herbs alone

others not so much

i got to around 50% recovered by mainly using Buhner herbs - so they were definitely helpful for me
but i was at max dosage of all of his lyme and bartonella herbs per his later books - including Cryptolepis -etc for over 2 years
i am at around 60% recovered - which is good - but my recovery was slowing and seemed to plateau
so i have been adding things to see if i can move it forward some more - but keeping the things that have got me this far

i have bartonella as well as lyme - and maybe others too - so it may depend on which infections a person has, as well as the condition of their immune system.

this later piece is a large factor in my view.

in terms of other herbal options - Cryptolepis is shown to have direct antispirochetal activity against borrelia in in-vitro studies from Johns Hopkins - so this is one option - allicin from garlic and some essential oils also -
the difficulty with such studies is that since they are in-vitro only - its often not known if the concentrations used in the lab in test tubes / petri dishes can be reached in blood and tissues by oral use in humans.

there may also be concerns due to lack of good long term safety data for use of high doses that might be needed - so some caution is indicated.
Posted 7/29/2023 10:46 AM (GMT 0)

Garzie said...


some people have got better from Buhner herbs alone

others not so much

i got to around 50% recovered by mainly using Buhner herbs - so they were definitely helpful for me
but i was at max dosage of all of his lyme and bartonella herbs per his later books - including Cryptolepis -etc for over 2 years
i am at around 60% recovered - which is good - but my recovery was slowing and seemed to plateau
so i have been adding things to see if i can move it forward some more - but keeping the things that have got me this far

i have bartonella as well as lyme - and maybe others too - so it may depend on which infections a person has, as well as the condition of their immune system.

this later piece is a large factor in my view.

in terms of other herbal options - Cryptolepis is shown to have direct antispirochetal activity against borrelia in in-vitro studies from Johns Hopkins - so this is one option - allicin from garlic and some essential oils also -
the difficulty with such studies is that since they are in-vitro only - its often not known if the concentrations used in the lab in test tubes / petri dishes can be reached in blood and tissues by oral use in humans.

there may also be concerns due to lack of good long term safety data for use of high doses that might be needed - so some caution is indicated.

What were your symptoms? What does 60% recovered look like for you?
Posted 7/29/2023 10:55 AM (GMT 0)
fatigue, joint pain, muscle pain, headaches, cognitive problems, sleep problems, digestive issues, skin issues, PEM

fatigue was the most life limiting - i was almost housebound for approx. 3 years. driving for 20 minutes or socialising for 30mins could wipe me out for days

fatigue is still there - but lessened - sleep i much better - pain much reduced - PEM v rare
for example - i can now walk 3 miles at a fast slip each day - do a 30minute workout each day and do approx. 3x as many small jobs a day vs before.

so i am able to do around 60% of what i could do before - but i was v fit and high functioning before getting ill.
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