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Advice on how to take large amounts of mushroom powder?

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Posted 9/19/2023 11:38 PM (GMT 0)
So I want to start taking cordyceps mushroom powder because it's cheaper than the tinctures at the amounts Stephen Buhner recommends (in his Mycoplasma protocol).

3-4 tablespoons 3x daily is a lot. Far too much to make capsules out of (I did that math) every single day, not to mention how many capsules that would be (nor would that be economical).

They aren't sold whole near me, and even if they were I would want to be very careful about sourcing. There's only a couple places online I would even trust buying the powder.

So, does anyone have any recommendations? I thought about juice, but that's a lot of juice especially for someone who doesn't drink any normally...(and sugar!)
Posted 9/20/2023 9:11 PM (GMT 0)
that seems like a very high dose - are you sure that's what Buhner suggested

i have his mycoplasma and bart book and don't recall doses being that high ?

bare in mind its very fibrous - so unless you have a cast iron constitution ( few of us with lyme and co do) that much fibre is likely to be an issue for irritating the gut and aggravating digestive issues

i take it as a tincture - but only 4x 1.25ml as a tonic with other adaptogens
i make my own

one idea for you
you can make quite an acceptable chocolate substitute from it by warming cordyceps mycelium powder with just enough coconut oil to make a paste and adding a small amount of sugar or honey of some kind to sweeten it

but again - 4ounces is a huge amount whichever way it is consumed i think its likely to cause digestive issues - and i am not sure of the benefit beyond a ounce a day
Posted 9/22/2023 9:46 PM (GMT 0)
I didn't say ounces, though, I said tablespoons, and yes, Stephen does say so.

Page 139 of Healing Lyme Coinfections, Complimentary Holistic treatments for Bartonella and Mycoplasma, middle of the page:

"I would recommend you buy the powder in bulk from someone such as 1stChineseHerbs and then use 3--4 tablespoons of the powder blended with water or juice 3x daily."

Anyway, the water option is out. I just tried it again after a week and the taste is just too horrid. The bulk powder is the cheapest option though, sadly. I found a place selling it for $40 a pound, too...
Posted 9/22/2023 9:49 PM (GMT 0)
That said, the paste is an interesting idea. I'll have to try that tomorrow. Thank you. I really want to incorporate this mushroom in particular...really wish it tasted better!
Posted 9/23/2023 4:05 AM (GMT 0)
Star,

Make sure of the concentration of the powder. I initially tried Cordyceps powder, but I think it was a highly concentrated or something. I would go by the directions on the product rather than Buhner’s dosage, at least to start with.

Also, just so you know, if you have hypersensitivity to mold or fungi, you might have issues with mushroom powder. I did. However, I had no problem with Lion’s mane tincture. When COVID hit, I tried capsules of a mushroom complex and had issues with it, too. Pay attention to how you respond to it. It may take a few doses before you notice adverse effects.

P.S. - I have no issues eating mushrooms.
Posted 9/23/2023 4:52 PM (GMT 0)
apologies - for misreading tblsp vs ounces

couple of notes that may be helpful ref sourcing

actual genuine cordyceps sinesis mushrooms are wild harvested in china, tibet, butan and a few other Asian countries. They fetch something like $20,000/pound and rarely reach the West

all products marketed as "cordyceps mushrooms" made in the usa are actually myeliated grain - these products contain no actual mushrooms ( fruiting bodies ) just sterilised grain infused with the fungal mycelium of a related species cordyceps militaris (cordyceps sinesis will not grow on grain).
there is no way of separating the mycelium from the grain - so the entire substrate (grain and mycelium) is dried and ground up to make the product that is sold as "cordyceps powder".
they have very little of the medicinal compounds in them when tested and are mainly starch.
some of these products have been found to contain fungal toxins from things like aspergillus that is present in the grain substrate

in china the preferred method is liquid culture of mycelium ( fungal threads) in large vats - which are then filtered out and dried and powdered. they have developed a strain of cordyceps sinesis, that will grow in liquid media, called C4S - but there are no fruiting bodies in the product and as a result this product has a chemical / nutritional profile different to that of real cordyceps sinesis mushrooms.
because its vat grown - there is potential for other organisms to grow in the culture that are not intended - some of which may be pathogenic or produce unwanted toxins - so manufacturers should do careful biologic testing of all batches.
in his books Buhner writes that he prefers the vat grown over the American style product
Posted 9/23/2023 7:31 PM (GMT 0)
@Walking,

Thank you, I will keep that in mind. I don't think I have a mold sensitivity, but I am adding supplements and herbs very slowly to monitor side effects.

@Garzie,

Thanks, I do note that he said that also, but I didn't know the specific details like you mentioned. I currently have this one from myriad mycology that I had originally purchased from 1stChinese. My bag is actually organic: https://myriadmycology.com/collections/single-species/products/cordyceps-cordyceps-militaris-bioavailable-mushroom-powder but I guess since it's from the US I can't trust it anymore? So should I just toss it?

I appreciate the warning. There were only a few additional places I was considering of getting this from, though. I'm curious what you think of each and also hoping you could share which cordyceps powder you have used in the past.

1. From Healing Spirits Herb Farm, one farm Stephen recommends in general: https://www.healingspiritsherbfarm.com/product-page/cordyceps-mycelium-extract (1 lb for $40 USD is the cheapest, cheaper even than the bag I currently have so this was my original plan)
2. This powder from Mountain Rose Herbs that says it's sourced from China (https://mountainroseherbs.com/cordyceps-mushroom-powder)
3. These granules from a brand on 1stChinese, this vendor who Stephen specifically recommends for sourcing cordyceps: https://1stchineseherbs.com/cordyceps-extract-granules-dong-chong-xia-cao-activeherb-100-g/
Posted 9/24/2023 11:43 AM (GMT 0)
many of the USA companies supplying cordyceps products also source their products from china

the first product may be this - but there is no way to know by looking at it
however if you email the company to ask if it is liquid vat grown or grain grown they should tell you

the second product is almost certainly vat grown mycelium powder

the third product is an extract - not a raw mycelium powder
these products are usually water extractions ( like a tea ) that are then dried into powder or pellets
they are therefore concentrated - but because of the water only solvent - they will have a different chemical profile vs whole mushroom - or even mycelium powder
i do not know how to compare them to either

i do not know how to interpret "organic" in the case of a vat grown product
i assume it just means that the sugars or starches or whatever ingredients pumped into the vat were labelled organic

you can contact the companies and ask them questions like
is it vat grown mycelium or myelinated grain ?
how do they ensure there are no contaminants - like mold or bacteria ?

the more people that do this the more pressure there is for companies to act ethically and make clean products that they can demonstrate meet high standards
Posted 9/24/2023 7:58 PM (GMT 0)
This is fascinating! I looked up the mushroom extract I take (the Host Defense MyCommunity blend tincture) and found how their cordyceps is grown. https://hostdefense.com/collections/cordyceps-supplements/products/cordyceps-capsules Fortunately I'm not sensitive to brown rice.

I'm a tincture person, but sadly I'm not sure how that converts to Buhner's recommendation, in terms of milligrams and such.... I don't doubt that drinking the powder is foul!
Posted 9/24/2023 10:24 PM (GMT 0)

saraeli said...


I'm a tincture person, but sadly I'm not sure how that converts to Buhner's recommendation, in terms of milligrams and such.... I don't doubt that drinking the powder is foul!

think of a slightly fishy chocolatey powder smile

i like tinctures too - and take 3ml 4x a day as part of my lyme and bart protocol

tonic doses seem to be anywhere from 1ml 3x to 30ml per day

one thing worth noting is that the mushroom created carbohydrate beta-glucans is one of the main immuno modulating ingredients in cordyceps mushrooms - and these are not really soluble - so will not be in tinctures in appreciable qualities.
Posted 9/27/2023 12:15 AM (GMT 0)
@Garzie
Thanks for your help. For the first one from healing spirits it actually says "Made with Cordyceps (C.sinensis CS-4) mycelium grown on organic sorghum." so it's not vat grown. But it still claims to be the CS4 that you mentioned above was the good one...? They go into more detail about their mushroom process here: https://www.healingspiritsherbfarm.com/mushrooms

Also, good point about the tincture. I find that interesting as he does have a tincture recommendation for cordyceps as well (he doesn't not recommend it). It just seems more expensive than the powder to me at the dose he recommended...

@sara I'm also a tincture person! I really want to just drink the tincture but....idk, trying to cut costs where I can. Maybe it's not worth it in this case. I actually still haven't worked up the courage to do the honey and coconut oil thing that Garzie rec'd....I have never been sensitive to herb and green powder tastes but this one really makes me gag sad
Posted 9/27/2023 12:10 PM (GMT 0)
that's odd - i was not aware CS-4 will grow on grain - as that is the strain that was developed to grow in the liquid media in china
the page says its a mushroom extract - which would normally be made in china from pure powdered mycelium - but the description says its a myceliated grain product ( where the the grain will still constitute 90% of the mass of the product) - which if you made an extract from would be mainly extracts of the grain ??
its all very ambiguous
my guess, given the price point, is its actually simply dried and ground up myelinated grain - but who can tell - what they write about it is confusing

my read on the blurb on that site is a bit misleading - mycelium do indeed have some of the compounds found in fruiting bodies but not all of them.
but this is just what we were talking about earlier - all manufacturers / sellers promote their product - and there is little or no regulation around what they say when doing that.

i use a pure dried mycelium product sourced from china in the UK
Posted 9/28/2023 7:20 PM (GMT 0)
Hmm, I see. Well there's got to be more to this or else anyone who wants this powder, at least in the US, is crap out of luck. Even the mountain rose herbs one that I linked--which is sourced from china--states that "Our cordyceps powder is milled from Cordyceps militaris fruiting body that has been cultivated on organic rice and soybean flour. The wild form of Cordyceps is rare and expensive; consequently, a strain isolated from the wild form is now cultivated and commonly used."

Buhner was extremely well read. I spoke to him via and facebook several times before he passed, and I have read most of his lyme books. I suspect if the grain grown powder was proven to be that useless (at least in the time he was alive; he only passed last year) he would have said as much, even if it wasn't proven and he only had suspicion. I know he wrote he prefers the vat grown, but if even MRH sells grain grown...I'm gonna take my chances with it.

Garzie, if by chance the one you buy in the UK has a brand name you are willing to share, please do for any others who might stumble upon this thread, but I think I will just try these powders for now.
Posted 9/28/2023 8:33 PM (GMT 0)
sure

the brand i buy is "Vitanix" - its from a small herb and superfood retail company that source it from china
a long time ago when i was sourcing it, and asking all the above questions, i settled on this product
but i don't think its a brand available outside the UK

there will be lots of others like it though - its just vat grown cordyceps mycelium
to my knowledge all such products are made in china - not elsewhere
so if you wish to buy an American produced product i think that will limit you to myelinated grain products
ref China - there are good suppliers there - not just poor ones
if the supplier you contact answers your questions fully and clearly - its a good sign

if the product your are referring to is really just the fruiting bodies of the mushrooms ground up - then it would be a very good and rare product - but i suspect it is the whole myelinated mass of grain and fruiting bodies that is ground up and then dried - and the description may be misleading
it may be worth getting them to state specifically which of these it is

all the best !
Posted 9/30/2023 12:43 AM (GMT 0)
This is the vat grown powder that Buhner recommended.

https://1stchineseherbs.com/cordyceps-mushrooms-powder-100gm-bottle-plum-flower/#description

1st Chinese does have some other Cordyceps listed, but this is the one that states “vat grown”

Use cide “LYME” at checkout.
Posted 9/30/2023 1:31 PM (GMT 0)
I would NOT recommend any Cordyceps power UNLESS it comes from Nammex, the only organic grower that tests their batches.

A lot are not standardized for cordycepin, most add gmo starch, many are just the mycelium and not fruiting body.

If you do take a lot, buy in bulk from Spiri of Health Kansas City, or more expensive options: nootropics depot and realmushrooms.com. All use same supplier.
Posted 9/30/2023 1:40 PM (GMT 0)

star_parade said...
So I want to start taking cordyceps mushroom powder because it's cheaper than the tinctures at the amounts Stephen Buhner recommends (in his Mycoplasma protocol).

3-4 tablespoons 3x daily is a lot. Far too much to make capsules out of (I did that math) every single day, not to mention how many capsules that would be (nor would that be economical).

They aren't sold whole near me, and even if they were I would want to be very careful about sourcing. There's only a couple places online I would even trust buying the powder.

So, does anyone have any recommendations? I thought about juice, but that's a lot of juice especially for someone who doesn't drink any normally...(and sugar!)






The ONLY brands I'd ever recommend! I've done years of research on mushroom fruiting body extracts, there are lots of scam companies out there. Many of the brands I list below also carry turkey tail, reishi, lion's mane and maitake, the latter of which I recommend for increasing b-cell content.

Here are the best (I take the first one; you get the MOST for your money buying in bulk from them. The brand is nammex):

https://store.spiritofhealthkc.com/cordyceps-mushroom-fruiting-body-1-1-extract-powder/

A blend; this includrs mycelium which has other immune stinulatory properties. The other brand is also organic:

https://store.spiritofhealthkc.com/cordyceps-mushroom-blend-full-spectrum-powder/

And if you want to specialize in more potent/expensive options (not recommended if you take a lot; but these are standardized and many are potent):

https://nootropicsdepot.com/cordyceps-mushroom-supplements/

And another good distributor of nammex, more expensive:

https://www.realmushrooms.com

Somebody said...

Post Edited (birthdaysuit) : 9/30/2023 5:44:42 AM (GMT-8)

Posted 9/30/2023 1:43 PM (GMT 0)

WalkingbyFaith said...
This is the vat grown powder that Buhner recommended.

https://1stchineseherbs.com/cordyceps-mushrooms-powder-100gm-bottle-plum-flower/#description

1st Chinese does have some other Cordyceps listed, but this is the one that states “vat grown”

Use cide “LYME” at checkout.

I don't recommend. Has prop 65 warning. See my recommends above.

EVERY LYMIE should be buying Nammex.
Posted 9/30/2023 4:05 PM (GMT 0)

birthdaysuit said...


I don't recommend. Has prop 65 warning. See my recommends above.

EVERY LYMIE should be buying Nammex.

but isn't Prop 65 effectively a moot point - as just about all herbs will have something in them at extremely low levels or extremely low risk that requires labelling with a Prop 65 warning in California.
according to the Californian state legislation - eg the actual active components in cordyceps ( and the reasons people are taking it) - may be chemicals on that Prop 65 list

it doesn't mean there are contaminants - it could be there because of naturally occurring chemicals in the fungus that the legislation in California requires a warning for

i am all for limiting contaminants in tap water ( which was i think one of the original drivers of Prop 65) - where we know there are detectable levels of tings like pesticides and forever chemicals - but the whole prop 65 thing seems to be a bit of a mess when it comes to herbs - as the legislation seems to treat the active components of herbs as contaminants or toxins to be controlled - rather than natural substances in foods or herbs that can increase health if used properly.


it may actually be another way big pharma is legislating against natural remedies for fear of loosing revenue from pharma drug sales - while hiding behind the "we are protecting the public health" banner
Posted 9/30/2023 5:10 PM (GMT 0)
I agree about prop 65 warning, though if you can get the same mushroom extract with lower lead content, that's always better.

I listed the above recommendations from nammex because they test all their products and do third party. I think high lead content in mushrooms, espeically cordyceps usually means they are not whole fruiting body and are likely adulterated with a starch to fraudulently increase beta glucan content, which probably has higher lead content.
Posted 9/30/2023 7:13 PM (GMT 0)
i agree - that if there is lead in the product - or any other heavy metal or contaminant it likely came from the substrate ( eg grain ) - and people happily eat cereal with these levels of lead - so why they would suddenly be scared of the same or lower levels in a mushroom product or herb is a mystery to me - its all a labelling mess in my view.

as far as i am aware - almost no cordyceps products are whole fruiting body only - although lots try to suggest they are with photos of cordyceps caterpillar fungus examples on the packaging etc
most are either vat grown mycelium - or myceliated grain - and most of the myelinated grain product do not get as far as fruiting bodies - or cannot form them.
(as far as i am aware only cordyceps militaris will fruit on grain - not cordyceps senesis)

all the powdered products i have seen that have cordyceps fruiting bodies at all are a mix of the fruiting body and the myelinated grain that it grows on - as the entire cake is dried and powdered - so will have high starch content by default ( there is always more weight of grain than mushroom )

anything 3rd party tested is preferable - and especially important on the grain grown product as it is subject to fungal toxins that are commonly present in the grain before its myceliated - or could grow during the process - but the price point is usually a fair bit higher.

its a balance - anything grown on grain will usually include the grain - and therefore be mostly starch - but if it contains fruiting bodies it will have a wider spectrum of beneficial chemicals

the vat grown mycelium products are composed of pure fungal mycelium fibres / no grain - so contain more mushroom products weight for weight - but lack some of the higher order chemicals that are only formed in the fruiting bodies.

i think the vat grown mycelium is a decent compromise
Posted 9/30/2023 7:27 PM (GMT 0)
I opened the link that I posted for the Plum Flower Cordyceps and read the information. I copied and pasted it below so people will actually have the information if they care to read it.

This is the vat grown powder that Buhner recommended.

https://1stchineseherbs.com/cordyceps-mushrooms-powder-100gm-bottle-plum-flower/#description
——————————
“about Plum Flower Quality Herb Powders

Plum Flower is an established worldwide manufacturer of high-quality Chinese herbs, and innovative Chinese medicinal herbs and products. Plum Flower uses sulfur-free herbs and laboratory tests its products for contamination and heavy metals, such as mercury, lead, and pesticides.

— Made at GMP internationally certified facilities (Good Manufacturing Practices) —Quality control tests are done at the manufacturing site and at third party labs to confirm results.
—Manufactured using Unsulfured, Chlorine free, Aluminum Phosphate free herbs when possible.
—Microbials and heavy metals tested. No preservatives.”

“Plum Flower Cordyceps is a fine powder which is east to use as teas, or put into capsules. This cordyceps is vat-grown, and does contain a small amount of maltodeyestrin. The Dong Chong Xia Cao powder is Cordyceps mycelium. The diagram below details the parts of the mushroom.”

“Cordyceps comes from the Latin word meaning club or head. The Cordyceps mushroom is found primarily in the high altitudes of the Tibetan mountains. There its preferred growing medium is the larvae of caterpillars and insects. The fruit body of the fungus ranges from a dark brown to black color while the roots that attach to the larvae are yellowish to brown.“
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