Ongoing severe pain in teeth

Does anyone else get this?

What do they attribute it to?

I have bartonella in a bad way and definitely in my jaw and teeth, does it just go away with time?

It's horrific.

It's not one specific tooth. It's like a neuralgia for all of them.

I didn’t have severe pain but did have random tooth pain that wasn’t cavities. Random tooth pain is common with Bart and Lyme, I think.

There’s also the distinct possibility that you are clenching or grinding teeth at night. The infections can cause body tension anywhere, including the jaw. I have it, especially if I get cold at night, but really it happens a lot. Every once in a while, I feel a dramatic and sudden release of tension from my whole body with no explanation.

Sinus pressure, congestion, allergies, mold inhalation, or anything else going on in your sinuses definitely can irritate the nerves of your teeth. That has happened to me all my life during allergy season, ditto everyone else in my family (with no TBD).

Try xylitol nasal spray, allergy remedies, decongestants, self-lymphatic massage (lots of how-to videos on YouTube) and sinus massage, neti pot, VapoRub, warm compresses, or anything else that relieves sinus pressure for you and see if that helps over time.

Sinuses can also be impacted by laryngopharyngeal reflux and jaw tension/clenching.

Derek,

Are you living in a moldy environment?

It's not mold.

Tests are clean.

I have severe brain stem inflammation and taking a break from treatment.

Assuming it's just neuralgia and hoping it slowly improves.

It's absolutely savage.

yep - treatment is a marathon - not a sprint

you can take breaks

Dr J uses 2 weeks on - 1 week off - but the treatment is mainly Monday to Friday so its 9-10 days off in between pulses - and his patients still get well

initially - if you are struggling to tolerate the on periods - he would say focus on POEMS

Jemsek's website said...

P
pain

O
other (social support, access to care)

E
endocrine/metabolic

M
mood

S
sleep

A key initial step to the success of our program is to identify and stabilize debilitating symptoms and eliminate other barriers in the way of effective care. In order to do this, we utilize a system created by Dr. Jemsek, termed POEMS.

Recommendations for stabilization (POEMS) are essential and accomplished through lifestyle and diet changes, understanding the importance of supporting individuals, recognition of destabilizing key metabolic abnormalities addressing pain stressors and sleep disfunction.

and maybe half the doses - or extend the off periods to what is tolerable

it should gradually improve over time - then you can step back up

i agree you cannot continue doing the same thing over and over and expect different results
- so something has to change

i also agree its worth getting to the other side and waiting for things to settle before tackling it with any more antimicrobials

in terms of an explanation - it could be that there are some anti-inflammatory effects of some of the antibiotics you are taking - and this what is being felt after a few days of stopping them - as these are generally v slow infections to rebound in terms of regrowth - which is what allows pulsing schedules like those above to work - and why i suspect a different mechanism is at work

sometimes its just not possible to know what the "why"s are - and it can be counter productive to spin our wheels searching for answers and torturing ourselves with the frustration of not finding any - in these cases we often just have to make a plan based on what we do know - and focus our efforts on following through on that plan of action.
we can be hyper focussed on "THE SOLUTION" that solves everything in a relatively short timeframe - but there are things that help (all be it more modestly at first) regardless of the cause of symptoms - eg lifestyle changes, dietary changes, or all together different modalities like time in nature or mind body work. generally anything that benefits overall health and the functioning of teh immune system can help in this way. These things may seem peripheral and hence not seem like a solution, but can actually be foundational for moving forward. also it feels much much better to be focussed on a forward plan and making small steps forward - than it does being stuck in a loop going round and round, despairing and frustrated.

therefore you may need to try other strategies (other than going back on abx) as a means to do that

-some people find additional detoxing steps - like Epsom salt baths, Alker Selzer gold or burbur pinella as helpful for this - essentially just about all symptoms of lyme / bart etc are a product of inflammation - reduce inflammation and symptoms improve - even without antimicrobials

-others find mind body work a game changer - like DNRS or other similar limbic retraining approaches

-some use pharma pain medications via an MD or LLMD for pain management ( or antipsychotics - or antiseziure meds etc ) but i would make the obvious caution that many of these have significant risk of either long term unwanted effects - or are known to be highly addictive - so i would tread very cautiously here as its all too easy to come to rely on them - if you go in that direction

- poor sleep on it own can drive intense pain syndromes - so if that's disturbed you may find improvement from addressing it ( poor sleep exacerbates all symptoms for me )

- some find cannabis very helpful for management of chronic pain - and it has far fewer long term adverse effects and is not additive in any normal sense - unlike opiates for instance

perhaps one of these approaches or a combination of them ( chronic lyme recovery is always through a multimodal approach - not just a pill popping exercise ) can help you get through the first few weeks without abx to allow you to stabilise and make a new plan

good luck!!

i would look at it the other way around Derek

it is a very unlikely its the infection getting dramatically worse over just a few days.

many many people have these infections untreated for years and deterioration is v slow indeed

these bugs don't want to kill us - they would die too that way - just want to chronically infect us so they have a chance to be transmitted on to the next host via arthropod bite

What if I have disseminated candida?

That's not a worry taking a break?

I have been taking anti fungals sporadically with the antibiotics but cannot tolerate those either.

Thank you for the constant encouragement and reminder that I'm not thinking clearly and that a break is in order.