Hyperthermia treatment permanent solution?

Vimzor said...
I've been interested in hyperthermia treatment for a while. Given that it costs more than € 20000 how permanent of a solution is this? Could it come back? And does it also work for Bartonella?
I would assume it would work against every pathogen but I'm not sure.

Several years ago - there were a few members talking about it.
I believe that it had helped with symptoms but wasn’t long lasting.
I’ll try to find some threads on it.

I have noticed in the few anecdotes I've seen over the years is that those who get benefit from it seem to relapse down the line.

from what i have researched - there are two versions

1, done frequently and repeatedly for short periods over a time frame of weeks or months - but to a lower temperature and not requiring anaesthetic - mainly in clinics in Mexico or south America

2, done usually only once for a few hrs - but to extreme temperatures under close medical supervision - and using anaesthetic to make the treatment bearable. mainly in clinics in Germany i think.

from what i have read the treatments may be successful for lyme - but not the co-infections as in general only the genus borrelia are very heat sensitive ( before antibiotics - syphilis was once treated by deliberately giving malaria to the patients and the resulting high fevers would kill the spirochetes - the patient would be left with malaria - but that was preferable to a slow death from syphilis ) - bartonella, Babesia and others are not known to be susceptible to temperatures that humans can endure, whereas borrelia are well documented to be killed by temperatures above around 41 deg C after a time - and more quickly at higher temperatures

so then it gets into what we believe Lyme disease to be - if its thought to be just a single infection - then hyperthermia treatments make a lot of sense
if its really almost always a multi-organism infection with other bugs like bartonella, Babesia, anaplasma mycoplasma, chlamydia etc - then it might be helpful but unlikely to be curative.

repeated mild hyperthermia treatments have a number of other benefits - including
- increasing interferons - that help fight infections
- increasing tissue perfusion - that could help the immune system access tissues
- helping break down biofilms directly

so i believe these can have a place as a supportive therapy in an ongoing lyme treatment plan

Vimzor said...


"repeated mild hyperthermia treatments have a number of other benefits"
So like a sauna, kinda.

So basically, if you have enough money to repeat the German treatment every year then it could be a viable treatment.

possibly - yes its a treatment - but again - its only really effective for lyme - and if it doesn't get a person to remission the first time - i think its unlikely on the 2nd or 3rd - as its more likely the other infections are driving the illness in such cases

by mild hyperthermia treatments - i was referring to the 30mins to 1hrs at 41 deg C body temp or above type treatment that are repeated 1-3x weekly - similar to the Mexican clinics - rather than the 44 deg C or above they do in Germany as a one off

i did a few months of v hot baths to reach 41 deg C internal body temp every 4 days - along with Lyme and bartonella herbs - methylene blue and bromelain for fibrin/biofilms - i think it helped move me forward from 40ish to 50% recovered - so a decent supportive treatment in this respect

Vimzor said...
I've said this before but I had specific bartonalle herxes from an infrared sauna. A cheap tent-like one, my head was sticking out. And yet I had massive head & eye pressure for more than a week afterwards. Was very painful.
But maybe it's more than just the heat and it's specifically the infrared. Hmm...

yes - there is a surprising amount of good scientific research on Near Infra red light - a fair bit of it by NASA.
for instance - many cells in the body have receptors that can detect ad react to infrared light - and some of the near infra red frequencies do actually penetrate the body - so herx from this effect would not surprise me at all - though not all the mechanisms are understood yet

Vimzor said...
Although, aren't all pathogens susceptible to heat, somewhat? Because isn't that what a fever is, a response to kill pathogens.

the body has some general purpose non specific responses - triggered by the innate immune response - like fever and inflammation - that on average, in the short term tend to be better than not doing anything in an evolutionary sense - but they are not tuned specifically to each species and have limited effectiveness to many microbes - which is why we have developed a second line of defence in the adaptive immune response.

for example fever in malaria does not clear the body of malaria - the same is true of bartonella and many other species

bacteria vary widely in terms of their susceptibility to heat
some species like the spirochetes are very sensitive having a pretty sharp cut off not too far above human body temperature
some species are quite tolerant - like Enterococcus, Microbacterium species which may survive 30 min heating at 60 °C, ( which is way past the point that any mammal would be long since dead)
and some are thermophilic - even surviving boiling water
so its a very wide range
in general most human pathogens will be killed or deactivated by heating to 70 deg C for 1 minute - but that is still a wide range when the highest fevers are only around the 45 deg C range
much the same story for fungi

viruses - while not strictly alive in the first place- are often reliant on delicate enzymes with narrow temperate ranges - so moving the body temp away from their ideal range can help here - to at least slow down their replication and help give the immune system time to catch up.

in a similar way - the other benefits of mild hyperthermia may still be helpful and supportive - eg increase perfusion, increase interferons, help dissolve biofilms etc

so i would think of it more in terms of a supportive approach - like sleep, exercise, good diet etc that all move the needle in favour of the immune system function