How deep does anyone go with neurotransmitters?

I'm starting to think this is a major part of what remains with me. If I miss even one day of morning sunlight, I'll totally tank. Lately, I hagent been as strict there and my memory, drive, will power, and motivation have been on the floor.

Things the boost seratonin (ie methylene blue) make me go insane- even one drop. But methylation supps and tyrosine (dopamine, maybe others?) along with morning sun help the most. This points to dopamine to me.

Tbh, im so burned out after 12 years of such a heavily altered consciousness that I don't have it in me to start learning everything about neurotransmitters as it relates to this. I had bartonella, babesia, mycoplasma a c. pneumonia so don't know if any of those mess with you this way or if it's something else. It's extremely severe. Is this a forefront lyme problem?

I dont have any answers for you other than Ive been there. Had both way in the past (my lyme went back decades). So I dont remember what is like not to have either

Before the below timeline, I tried Rx meds a couple times- made me a zombie, did not like it. Thats all that was offered by modern health care. It was a bandade that did not work.

Then around 2009, after first treating thyroid with pig thyroid meds )vs synthetics that dont work for many people), and then ABX for lyme 2014-2016, both dep and anx changed to just anxiety, which was at least better. That seems to go up and down, hard to tell why. I felt great from 2018-2022, slept good too. Now not so much.

I tried many suppliments over the years. 5-HTP seemed to help but reved me up a little. Lower amounts in time release was the best. It I get to reved up in anziety, I take suppliment "downers" lol. Like passion flower, holy basil. Vit D does nothing for me. Never did, no matter what level.

Lithium Orotate (OTC retail, its a low dose) helps both for many people. I had mixed results on that one.

Its trial and error.....and maybe gene / methal related to.

Yea, Im burnt out over the decades with all this self learning too, had a post on that last weekend.............

very low T3 can definitely make you feel awful

post up your results and a few here have good thyroid insights

ref neurotransmitters - just be aware that its largely an overhyped field when it comes to the clinical effectiveness of neurotransmitter based drugs
its all based on a 1960's theory that pretty much all dysfunctions in the CNS are due to a lack or excess of one or more of the many neurotransmitters.
this was the limit of their understanding of the brain at that time.
this is now patently false - for instance - if this was the case, what role does inflammation or energy metabolism in the cells of the brain play?
but we now have 40 years worth of drugs targeting neurotransmitters being prescribed for years at a time - often with severe withdrawal or side effect profiles - even though their effectiveness was only ever proven to be 20% above placebo for treating things like depression or anxiety.
that fact alone should tell you they are not on the right track.
it was however a great marketing strategy / story - "feel blue, down, just not quite yourself - take this pill and everything will be rosy again"

having known many people who suffer depression and seen how poorly they do on the merry go round of neurotransmitters based drugs their doctors have them on - its clear it was over sold and under delivers

especially in lyme etc - neurotransmitters are not the root cause - infection and inflammation is - so they are only ever going to be a sticking plater at best - and i would be wary of being pulled into the neurotransmitter based model altogether.

i hope its of some help

I’ve had some experiences with neurotransmitters that might be insightful -

Serotonin - I was prescribed an SSRI for PTSD which didn’t help PTSD but I did notice some improvement in my mood, I didn’t realise I experienced low mood until I noticed a difference with the SSRI. It wasn’t significant but enough to stay on it. However, I now microdose psilocybin and have found this is to be much more effective in improving my mood. It binds to serotonin receptors in the brain. Andrew Huberman has some good podcasts about it. So my theory is my low mood is due to low serotonin

Dopamine - a long time ago I was experiencing some symptoms which could be described as excess dopamine. I was prescribed lithium which reduces dopamine levels. This medication at the dosage I was taking was life changing. So my theory is that those symptoms were being caused by excess dopamine.

Glutamate / Gaba - I recently started taking Lyrica / Pregabalin for neuropathy which increases gaba and reduces glutamate. I also noticed this makes a significant difference to my sensory overload. Pretty much gets rid of it completely. This medication also treats anxiety so at first I thought could my sensory overload be caused by anxiety but no because I’ve found other things that really help anxiety but have no impact on sensory overload. Then I found out that Lyrica / Pregabalin is actually used to treat sensory overload for people with autism. My theory is my sensory overload is caused by excess glutamate which is why this medication helps. I looked it up and this checks out.

Acetylcholine - I recently started the medication Mestinon for POTS and CFS. It works by inhibiting the breakdown of acetylcholine. I feel much calmer since taking this.

Hope this is of use. I would be interested if others have made any discoveries / experiences re neurotransmitters!

I've put a decent amount of effort into optimizing these things. I don't think they're "causative" but they're definitely helpful if you dial them in right. Plus you can find a lot fairly cheap. Also some of these things need pulsed - more doesn't always equal better (tyrosine works better when I take it as needed vs relying on it like a drug). Also timing and combinations can make a big difference.

I.E I recently added 5 htp, had an incredible evening that first day. Day two and three I felt terrible. I believe 5htp lowered my dopamine (when seratonin raises dopamine lowers and vice versa). Tyrosine on day 3 brought me back to balance. Next try will be tyrosine in afternoon and 5htp in evening - to see if that balances out.

LDN has also been helpful for boosting mid to late day dopamine when taken around 10-11am.

loski01 said...
I've put a decent amount of effort into optimizing these things. I don't think they're "causative" but they're definitely helpful if you dial them in right. Plus you can find a lot fairly cheap. Also some of these things need pulsed - more doesn't always equal better (tyrosine works better when I take it as needed vs relying on it like a drug). Also timing and combinations can make a big difference.

I.E I recently added 5 htp, had an incredible evening that first day. Day two and three I felt terrible. I believe 5htp lowered my dopamine (when seratonin raises dopamine lowers and vice versa). Tyrosine on day 3 brought me back to balance. Next try will be tyrosine in afternoon and 5htp in evening - to see if that balances out.

LDN has also been helpful for boosting mid to late day dopamine when taken around 10-11am.

This makes me wonder if thats why methylene blue is so bad for me- since it's a serotonin agonist it may be lowering dopamine further. I certainly don't turn into another person taking tyrosine but I think it helps a little. Is there anything else non-rx that can raise dopamine aside from sufficient sun?

methylene blue was exceedingly powerful as an antimicrobial for me - i had to start at a very small dose 10mg a day and work up gradually and i still had strong herx signs from it initially - racing thoughts, poor sleep, fatigue, aching, pains etc

it has very good CNS penetration - so i suspect you may have been experiencing these antimicrobial effects rather than its electron donor/ anti-inflammatory effects

astro is correct - autoimmunity directed at the thyroid gland as in hashimotos typically damages the gland over time such that it cannot any longer produce sufficient thyroid hormones - and you need medication to achieve proper thyroid hormone levels

some people have reversed hashimotos - but its not an easy thing to do - and the longer you have suffered with it the harder its likely to be - after many years, even if one were to stop the auto-immunity - the gland will likely not regrow.

Aerose91:

Thyroid-

A lot of people should, but don’t get thyroid antibodies checked.

those can be elevated with symptom's before the levels of Thyroid hormone really start to look wonky.

Also, many people can feel when their thyroid is off (I always can ) and some people just cannot tell. Why that is nobody knows , hormones all work together and we are all a little bit different.

There is one Hyper thyroid antibody test called TSI

There are two antibody tests for hypothyroid, TPO and TGAB.

If any of those three are elevated, that is autoimmune thyroid disease.

In my case, For about 20 years, both Hashimoto hypothyroid antibodies were in the 700s. Ultrasound imaging showed the gland to be physically messed up. It literally looked like someone took a very small block of cheese and whacked it with a hammer.

Then around five years ago when I went 100% gluten-free with a functional medicine doctor, I began to retest my thyroid antibodies, And watched them drop. One has remained normal ever since that time and the other one dropped down to about 35. As long as I’m gluten-free they stay this way.

I also had one thyroid Nodule for about 15 years until I went gluten-free. Six months after, the thyroid nodule Completely dissolved.

There are many environmental Factors and foods that can actually start this. Gluten being the number one offender of thyroid autoimmune conditions.

Another important note: I do not have celiac antibodies when I eat gluten. So I’m not celiac, but my blood is gluten sensitive. Gluten will make my blood release cytokins which is highly inflammatory and is one thing that can cause tumors or nodules In some people.

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Functional medicine doctors can be great, but they still don’t know everything. The best thing about them is they will talk to you about new treatments or new ideas that you’ve heard about versus not having a clue or blowing you off which is what many regular doctors do. By the time they do know just about everything, is when they’re ready to retire.

Post Edited (astroman) : 4/14/2024 7:46:24 PM (GMT-8)

Neurotransmitters are certainly confusing.

Articles written on it assume our levels are normal, and that everyone will have the same affect/response on lower or higher levels.

Some people have opposite affects compared to others. (Gene related).

Example: Added Dopamine gives me a light energetic, CALM and pleasant focus, a relief from anxiety. However, some internet articles say the opposite- It makes some people hyper enough to get confused with anxiety.

Energy drink ingredients can very between the different brands. Most consist of several amino acids and B vitamins, which some of them combined (some brands ) activate dopamine. (N-Acetly-Tyrosine, or tyrosine plus B12). Of course, there’s also taurine in many which has a calming effect with most people and then caffeine to add energy. (Some energy drinks have a lot of caffeine and some have much less). So many have two types of mood stimulating ingredients that create: 1) calm energy (Dopamine) and 2) hyper energy (usualy from Caffeine), which explains why some energy drinks make some people bounce off the walls, while making some people very calm while still alert (odd but “feel good” combination).

Ones with less caffeine and more amino acids with b12 make me calm with clear thinking. Calm Enough to take a nap, but clear enough to do complex thinking (both, However, not at the same time lol!)

I find caffeine alone, even just one strong cup of coffee, somewhat aggravating (Nervous and jittery ) at the amounts that are “normal” for many daily coffee drinkers. Yet, I’ve known people who can drink four cups of coffee a day, which sounds insane. They Appear to be calm and comfortable while doing this. Wow.😮

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The book Loski mentions sounds like a good read. Im my case, I prefer visuals to reading. An easy to follow neurotransmitter flow-chart, with "intersections" certainly would be an easy visual. The intersections is where its different in different people from their gene make up.

I'll try to google image “Neurotransmitters” later on. Maybe someone can beat me to it ….

A gene Dr gave me a few of these for my specific methation and amino acids years ago (some Crebs cycle stuff). There was also a website (cant remember name) with much of this info with charts/graphics to help visualize it all. I would guess it had neurotransmitter info too.

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So what foes this stuff have to do with tick infections? Not much directly.

But is my personal theory that if you have a prolong tick infection, you are not normal anyway. There is something not right with your immune system (in my case, I have documented tested proof ), and/or your genes have some deficiencies, or both.

Remember, many so-called “ Normal healthy people” do not get prolonged tick infections. Their immune system and sometimes only a month of antibiotics actually does cure them of this.

And as impossible as it may seem, some people do not get tick infection symptoms at all, despite being bitten by ticks, even repeatedly. I know some of these people . This can be a hard fact for us to swallow.🤔
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Post Edited (astroman) : 4/16/2024 9:52:44 PM (GMT-8)

Is Drs data a saliva sample test?

I was going to try a neurotransmitter panel years ago, then my functional gene Dr was no longer in my insurance coverage.

It would be interesting to do. I have not googled their accuracy though.