Bioflim Bartonella

LitleBee said...
Hi all,

I need advice on this please. LLMD treats pulsed and he says there is no need to use biofilm busters because bugs come out when you stop. Any experiences with this?

Anyway I am taking Serrapeptase, is that enough for bart? Please tell me what are you using.

Thanks a lot.
Bee.

My LLMD used biofilm buster and cyst busters.
He had me taking Xylitol and the second one I can’t remember.
If I have time later I will look up my old protocols and post here

Ok - I found this;

For biofilms - i took Serrapeptase...but have switched to Xylitol and Lactoferrin - I take them for one week (daily) in my 4 week cycle.

Treating without biofilm agents is a BAD idea. Xylitol/Lactoferrin or Nitroxoline are best. Proteolytic enzymes are weak since biofilm is mainly polysaccharides.

Hi Littlebee

this is an interesting point, - what you LLMD have said. I dont know if it is correct or not, - and I d like to know more.

In my case, I have been told and I m using
- NAC, Xylitol, Lumbrokinase and orego essential oil
if Cryptolepis is in this group, then yes, others however say it has anti-lyme and anti-bart properties.

I m however not able to track or have clarity in terms of how they actually work, or help, but I guess yes.

I d like to take advantage to ask you guys about so called biofilm markers, their availability and whether it is actually possible to know the presence of biofilms in oneself based on a specific diagnostic.

Best wishes to all
B

- what is the purpose of treating biofilms?

do biofilms themselves cause symptoms and make us feel ill or is the reason for treating because there is bacteria inside which could come out at some point in the future and cause symptoms / cause relapse etc?

general process here

https://www.biofilm.montana.edu/images/2003_psto_bfin3steps14b.jpg

thanks for that info Garzie! I'm currently taking CT minerals by cellcore which includes the following

ellagic acid, sesame seed oil, clove bud oil, rosemary leaf oil, thyme leaf oil - are any of these biofilm breakers?
I also cook using xylitol in my baking recipes.

little bee - I haven't tried IV ozone but I have done ozone insufflations somewhere in the past and recently started doing them at home

clove bud oil, rosemary leaf oil, thyme leaf oil are all biofilm breaking agents ( most essential oils are ) but the dose is typically also important - 100-300mg per day range is typical

thin blood smears are a standard blood evaluation test.
its actually a WHO approved method for detecting blood borne pathogens.

unfortunately - very few labs offer it or do it properly these days - because they prefer cheaper tests that are fully automated - where you just put a sample in a desktop machine and it spits out an automated report.
this is largely why there is an over reliance on serologic tests in our health system - they are easily automated.
whereas a thin blood smear is performed manually by a highly trained technician - and takes several hours.

UK NHS infections disease doctors occasionally order a blood smear - but the technicians will only spend 20mins max per slide and are not trained in how to identify chronic infections - unless the presentation is gross and obvious - which is very rare in chronic infectious disease.

i had such a test done by the NHS no infection was reported - but if you look at my own slides in the link in my signature - it was present all along.
so the quality of the technician and the time spent per slide is critical.

i do not know of any commercial lab performing this test correctly - so have been considering setting up such a service myself.

bartonella biofilm images

https://www.mdpi.com/microorganisms/microorganisms-09-00835/article_deploy/html/images/microorganisms-09-00835-g001.png

dosing in drops could be variable as different oil sources may have different densities and viscosities

my best guess would be that there would be something like 30 drops per gram

oregano oil dosing is normally done by dose of carvacrol in mg (1000mg to the gram )

high quality( more on quality below ) oil of oregano is often around 80% carvacrol

so 300mg of carvacrol would be something in the region of (300/1000*30)/0.8= 11 drops

here bear in mind that the essential oils fall into the alternative medicines category and are completely unregulated
in fact most oil of oregano product that i have tried have radically and fraudulently overstated their actual carvacrol content
the actual content often being as little as 1/10th of that stated on the label

as an example i had been using a product sold with a certificate of conformity that said it contained 82% carvacrol - it tasted very strong - almost too strong to tolerate a drop on ones tongue so i assumed it was legitimate

i later bought a product that also claimed 80% carvacrol - but a single drop burned my mouth for 4 days!
my guess is this is what real 80% carvacrol oil is like -

finally 300mg is likely to cause very strong herx reactions - so i WOULD NOT START AT THIS DOSE!

depending on how sensitive you are - i would suggest starting at 1/10 of this and work up

i tend to take it diluted in a spoonful of olive oil before food

i am not aware of any significant interactions with other medications - but please do your own due diligence before putting anything in your bod - especially on the advice of anyone on the internet

Dear Garzie,

thank you again for your elaborate and qualified answers for both questions. If I have understood your correctly, chances of false negative testing for bart is higher than lyme, babesia due to the reason you have explained.

So to sum up, which of the anti biofilm agents have worked best for you? And also does it wear off like with Abx (I mean gradually body gets used to and higher dosages are needed) so it needs to be replaced or one can continue knowing that it works...

best regards, B

its very hard to say which biofilm agents are working best as they are taken only in combination with antimicrobials - and so any herx feeling is a combination from both
and progress is gradual over the long term

if we use strength of herx type reaction as a proxy for effectiveness - then
xylitol is the toughest one i have taken
and
bromelain and lumbrokinase were also very powerful - especially lumbrokinase - they mainly target proteins - and are taken primarily to try to break up fibrin ( clotting related proteins that are over expressed in bartonella patients ) but there are proteins that are susceptible to these enzymes in the extracellular matrix that makes up biofilms
so they can fairly be called biofilm agents

oil of oregano is an antimicrobial that also acts on biofilms - and i found this to be particularly powerful at doses above 100mg carvacrol per day
not only did this cause powerful herx symptoms - buy my physical abilities also improved significantly while taking it

in general chances of false negatives with most methods are higher with bartonella than lyme

but it varies by test technology

sensitivity of standard ELISA for bartonella is probably below 20% in chronic patients
sensitivity for a standard ELISA for lyme is probably similar - but western blots are generally better, probably more like 50% - (20% to 80% depending on test kit used and study quoted)

bart and lyme via conventional PCR are both about the same - sensitivity around or just below 50%

i don t have numbers to hand for babesia - but many doctors do not trust the current Babesia tests - due to the tests being mostly based on the assumption that only certain species are responsible for human disease eg B. Microti and B. Duncani - and these tests may not detect other species - eg B. Odecoilei
data is rarely available for whether these tests are known to detect other species

in the end every individual test assay will have its limitations and it gets rather deep rather quickly
eg
is it a direct method or indirect
if indirect - you are normally measuring the hosts immune response - not the presence of the organisms
the organisms concerned also affect the immune response - so there is flawed logic here and its quite possible for organisms to be present - but not producing the expected immune response
if direct - how can you be sure the organism is in the sample taken
if its in the sample - how can you be sure the test will detect all species in the genus concerned

and these are just a few of the issues