Friend Was Told Babesia and Bartonella Can Clar Up on Its Own

Hi runningwild,

I believe its true for bart, have no idea for babs. When the immune System gets on track can erradicate Bart, but the problem is to heal immune System when is so ruined.

So its not easy.
Bee.

I just had never heard of that. Mentioned to him to make sure he isn't seeing a "dysfunctional" medicine doctor.

And yes, it does sound like a CDC thought.

yep - these diseases are all viewed by conventional medicine as infections that a healthy immune system should be able to control or clear - as it does with most infections we are exposed to.

this is probably true

for instance - there are numerous studies of bartonella ( cat scratch disease as its referred to in the older literature ) where they compared the recovery of people on abx vs those that received no treatment - and there was rarely any significant difference - most people both groups recovered in a similar time

so this is where things get confusing - for instance - why then are so many of us ill with chronic conditions that involve these organisms?

here we need to start to inspect the assumptions and paradigms that underlie our understanding

the main model people have typically used is - that we are all uninfected - then become infected - then become ill as a result

the reality is that we are all already infected with many different things - bacteria, viruses etc that we have accumulated but that our immune systems have managed to control up till now - then, if our immune systems become suppressed or dysregulated for any reason, some of these microbes can begin to flourish - and start to further dysregulate the immune system - at which point the immune system can no longer stay in control and we become sick.
this cycle then has a strong tendency to self re-enforce itself - more immune dysregulation - more illness etc etc and this is chronic illness.

there are many factors that can open the way to this situation by lowering immune function
-poor diet
-chronic stress
-poor lifestyle choices
-trauma (mental or physical)
-acute illness - eg an acute virus
-or we can simply acquire one too many infections for our system to cope with - eg from the community - or from the bite of an arthropod - which then becomes the final stressor that our bodies cannot cope with

but, as you can see in this model - there are always factors other than the actual microbe at work

i believe this is a much better model of what chronic illness is - and chronic tick borne disease in particular - as opposed to the "not infected - then infected - then sick" model - which does not explain much of what we see in the real world.

i hope it helps

yep - i think many of us have the same feeling wen looking back - if only we knew then what we know now

i had some correspondence with Prof Garth L. Nicolson about mycoplasma infections as he had written many papers and i think also whole books on mycoplasma being the causative agent in Gulf War syndrome

i think he had a relative, maybe a daughter, who was affected

the strange thing was - when i corresponded with him - a couple of years after most of his work on that was published - he seemed to have backed away from all those claims.

Garzie - I’m not too studied on the microbe nature of that, but I had caught wind of something mycoplasma related with the vaccines I believe?

RW- 2% of the population tests positive for babesia duncani anti bodies from an article I read awhile back. I think it’s more a lot of people get exposed to these things and either don’t know it or think it’s a summer flu of sorts. Kinda like how we all get exposed to EBV but don’t all get chronic issues. Although a major US army study recently correlated EBV with MS I believe?

In case studies that have documented persistence of babesia - it’s held up in the spleen. And honestly the only good data nowadays for chronic babesia I’m seeing is around zoology/farm animals.

co-incidentally Dr Rawls was on Project lymes podcast talking about exactly this concept recently

i found it by chance this afternoon

"dormant microbes and chronic illness"

he says the latest research shows we all have a dormant bacterial load in our blood and tissues - waiting to come back to life and cause havoc when our systems get suppressed

will find and post a link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uolxfbs74ew

loski - Didn't know that about spleen. Good information.

Garzie - The assumption it's not an infection to worry about is typical of so much information that has been put out there. Seems most of Healing Well find it the hardest to treat. If someone would have told be 11 years ago, when I first came on this site, that we would still have little movement on treating all Lyme related issues at this point, I would have disagreed. People new to all this, such as my buddy, are quick to find out how hard it is to treat and misinformation is widespread.

Just don't want him to lose hope as I have. The longer it goes, the more potential for added problems - EBV, autoimmune, autonomic neuropathy. Didn't realize this until it happened to me. It had not been mentioned by any doctors.