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Black cumin seed oil?

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Posted 6/1/2024 8:44 PM (GMT 0)
I wonder if this actually does anything you could feel. Amazing herbs brand. You never see this mentioned here.

On the bottle, it says it helps the immune system and inflammatory Response.

(Took three tries to post this, page going blank, “page not found”)
Posted 6/1/2024 8:48 PM (GMT 0)
I’ve never taken the oil but do take the seed. I don’t know if it really does anything for me though.
Posted 6/2/2024 12:52 AM (GMT 0)
Hey astroman,

I bought it recently and tried it a couple days ago for the first time. I didn't feel anything, sadly. The one I bought was standardized to Thymoquine so I was excited about it.

Unfortunately, I found out that very same day that it interferes with antibiotics that I'm taking, so I can't use it.... more money down the drain.

See here:

"One potential concern is that black seed oil may interact with medications that are processed through the cytochrome P450 pathway"

From: https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/black-seed-oil#side-effects-safety
Posted 6/2/2024 1:30 AM (GMT 0)
I have used oil and seeds. You can herx from it. There were a number of folks on here using it 5-6 years ago. Georgia Hunter used the seeds extensively. I can’t remember now who was using the oil. We had numerous posts years ago. It’s called by different names - nigella sativa, black seed.

Tastes like Pine Sol.
Posted 6/2/2024 11:10 AM (GMT 0)
its very well studied

a lot of the science is very convincing - so i believe there likely is a useful effect
maybe not wonder drug levels of effects - but useful

the problems tend to arise because the majority of the well done studies use known high quality and high doses of the active compounds

whereas the majority of products sold are of unknown quality or low quality - while at the same time all claim they are of high quality

damaged oils - like other seed oils may actually have deleterious effects that overshadow the possible effects of the intended active ingredients.

this the same problem that exists with many many supplements - but it seems especially prevalent with black seed oil

i think if you are going to try it - maybe use a supplement with 3rd party testing - use the dose of it used in studies that proved an effect - and if that works for you - then maybe see if there are more cost effective versions that give a better performance vs cost equation.
Posted 6/2/2024 11:27 AM (GMT 0)
hey Rainy -

i'm not sure if it helps - but my read on that Healthline article is that it inhibits some liver enzymes
and the article mainly seems concerned with sensitive blood pressure meds - thsi is because there are large numbers of people with advanced disease who are often finely balanced on one or more blood thinners or vasodilators - so there are risks or bleeding if the balance is knocked off even 30%

Healthline tend to make this same statement if there is any known effect of any supplement on liver enzymes.
but common foods do exactly this type of thing also - broccoli for instance - or cabbage - or a dozen other things - and again - unless you are on blood thinners - no one is told not to eat those while on antibiotics.

when it comes to inhibiting the enzymes and abx - that would tend to push up the concentrations of abx - rather than lower or inhibit their effectiveness.

of course pushing blood abx concentrations super high could have adverse effects - but these liver interactions effects tend to be moderate rather than increasing drug concentrations many-fold - and people tend to be much more tolerant to abx concentrations than blood pressure or blood clotting meds.

anyway - please do your own research on the size of the effect with the particular drug / herbs you have in mind
i just wanted to see if I could help in some way
Posted 6/2/2024 1:05 PM (GMT 0)
I tried it a few years ago, but it caused lethargy, which I didn't interpret as herxing. I interpreted it as a side effect of low blood pressure. It happens to me, too, and my son must get it from me. Every natural herb or supplement that lowers blood pressure causes the side effect of lethargy for us if we don't watch out. There's possibility it was actually a herx, not a side effect, but my gut feeling was that it was a side effect, because it happened immediately and without any delay, and even at a very low starting dose.

It's too bad, because it is effective against some of the bugs that cause gut dysbiosis, too. That includes both Candida and C Diff. That, and it's a powerful anti-inflammatory, too. It even decreases the release of histamines and leukotrienes from mast cells. I really wish we could have tolerated black seed oil. It would have been a powerhouse!
Posted 6/2/2024 4:09 PM (GMT 0)
Are used to use it for about six months in the past so I’m going to try it again.

The amazing herbs brand comes in liquid and gel caps. I’ve used both. It is apparently tested and comes up at .95% thymoquoones. (Great level, Even though it sounds low).

Since I’m not taking any antibiotics, I have nothing to worry about In that department.

I didn’t know that this can help eliminate what I call unwanted gut bugs. Good to know since I struggle with that.

My bottle is about a year old, So I will start using it again and see if I notice any of my Auto immune inflammation symptoms Improving or even more improvement in my digestion In addition to the visbiome probiotic I started using a while ago.

I will continue to monitor my blood pressure up to see if that makes any changes.

Thanks for the info
Posted 6/2/2024 5:00 PM (GMT 0)
i had fatigue also from it when i first started - dosing at around 10ml of oil per day

for me it was definitely a herx -

the oil typically has carvacrol in it also - which is the same active compound as in oil of oregano - which is powerfully antimicrobial and gives me strong herx symptoms

the carvacrol content of the oil is variable - which may explain why some have different reaction to it
Posted 6/2/2024 6:53 PM (GMT 0)
I’ve never hexed on it, But I also never took this back when I had lyme.

So if I herx now, well, that would be a bad thing (But helpful to know).
Posted 6/2/2024 7:16 PM (GMT 0)
what dose are you taking Astroman

i think studies typically used between 2 and 10mg / kg / day of thymoquinone

extracts typically perform worse than oils - as the active ingredient is oil soluble - and extracts are usually made using water

cold pressed oils tend to have a mix of active ingredients including carvacrol

extracts and more processed products may have none

the supplements world is like the wild west!
Posted 6/2/2024 9:08 PM (GMT 0)
These are 500 mg gel tabs of cold pressed oil ; bottle says take two a day for a total of 1000 mg.

Post Edited (astroman) : 6/2/2024 1:54:27 PM (GMT-8)

Posted 6/2/2024 9:15 PM (GMT 0)
ok - but what is the thymoquinone dose

most studies that found useful effects were using around 400-500mg of thymoquinone per day ( using the middle number in the range )

i think to give it a fair trial - its better to base dosing on the studies - than the supplement co's label

there's just loads of products out there that say take 2 per day - but when you work it out its 1/10th or even 100th of what the actual studies proved was effective
Posted 6/2/2024 9:56 PM (GMT 0)

Garzie said...
ok - but what is the thymoquinone dose

most studies that found useful effects were using around 400-500mg of thymoquinone per day ( using the middle number in the range )

It just says .95%
Posted 6/2/2024 10:28 PM (GMT 0)
If thats 0.95%
By my math thats around 10mg per 2capsules
Posted 6/2/2024 11:26 PM (GMT 0)
You have two different amounts of what your studies said were suggested doses.

2 to 10 mg

Then 400 to 500 mg

?

Post Edited (astroman) : 6/2/2024 3:29:42 PM (GMT-8)

Posted 6/3/2024 7:53 AM (GMT 0)
To clarify

2-10mg per kg of bodyweight per day is the dose range of the main active component ( thymoquinone ) used in studies.

Taking the mid point of that range of 6mg/kg/day
dose for a 70-75kg person in mg/day would be 6x70

This works out at somewhere in the 400 to 500 mg range of thymoquinone per day

There may be effects at lower doses like 20 or 30% of that

but realistically probably not much at a few mg per day

Supplement co’s do this trick all the time with expensive supplement ingredients.

its dishonesty by omission
-they lay out all the bold health claims - they emphasise "quality"
-but they fail to mention the critical piece of information - miniscule dose in the product vs the effective dose used in studies

they know v few people will ever read the studies or do the math - in fact, their business depends on it
Posted 6/3/2024 2:53 PM (GMT 0)

Garzie said...
To clarify

…….,,This works out at somewhere in the 400 to 500 mg range of thymoquinone per day ……,,

Supplement co’s do this trick all the time with expensive supplement ingredients.

its dishonesty by omission
-they lay out all the bold health claims - they emphasise "quality"
-but they fail to mention the critical piece of information - miniscule dose in the product vs the effective dose used in studies

they know v few people will ever read the studies or do the math - in fact, their business depends on it

Wow. At the suggested amount, this would be incredibly expensive! Good thing im finishing off an old bottle and didn’t waste my money buying more!!

Im sure LDN will do 100% more for my immune system at half the price. (i’ve just not started it yet, but its in my possession).

Thanks
Posted 6/3/2024 5:34 PM (GMT 0)
the doses above were indeed in mice

i was mainly recounting my experience with other products - and how misleading the supplement packaging can be - like a recent experience with a sulfurothane supplement - that even though the bottle claimed all the benefits of this wonder supplement - when i worked out the dose - i would need the entire bottle of 60 capsules every day to reach the daily dose used in humans.

humans and mice are very different - often in drug trials mice need 10x the amount per kg as humans do - mainly because they metabolise drugs so much faster

and indeed - a quick google for human studies shows that with thymoquinone doses are more often around 50mg / day
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