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Mental illness: Seriously??

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Posted 7/9/2010 2:42 AM (GMT 0)
Sorry, we have gone here before. Many times.  But this problem w/ me is getting worse, it seems, each day.  My new LLMD said 'yes' w/ certainty that my depression and anxiety can be caused by Lyme. And he said 'yes' w/ certainty that a herx (what I described about taking Amox) can cause this.

STILL, I was not able to describe to him in detail how I feel. (he did keep my symptom list, so hopefully knows some)

WE have talked about this before, and I need reassurance OR to be told Lyme can't be this bad. I do not know how to describe it besides unbearable. There is not even any certain way that I feel, except that I feel as if I cannot continue to go to work and to live a daily life. I am worn out from pushing myself just to work and half ass take care of myself.  My mind feels scrambled. I do have an almost describable depression -- it feels hopeless, brings on the desire to 'end it all', even tho I know that I can't. It's like a deep, dark hole that I cannot climb out of. I can't describe anything, and can't make sense of anything.

I feel like absolutely nothing. I hate myself and hate the way that I feel. I want to get away from everyone, yet don't want to hurt anyone. Cannot get ahold of my thoughts --- I don't even know if they are racing or just scrambled. I feel like I can't make it stop.

I feel as if my mind is not my own and that's very scary.  Because it seems to twist itself on its own, I am scared about what might happen if I totally lose it.

And btw, DAILY, tho only for a few miserable hours, I DO feel like I am losing it. I DO lose it.  I feel like I can't go on. I feel like I can't do what it takes to live and survive. I feel completely defective, incompetent, and AM.

I am not seeking sympathy here.

I've been blaming all this on Lyme for the past year. But I need to know if Lyme (or Babs or thyroid or EBV) can make someone's head so screwed up. I do not know if I am bipolar (tho have had no 'highs' for almost 10 yrs.  Used to have them). What can this be?

btw, I am on an antidepressant, now double the dose that I maintained for many years. And sometimes, even if it does not feel like anxiety, often a xanax brings some relief -- at least from the racing, maniacal head.

Are we TRULY POSITIVE that Lyme can do this??

Posted 7/9/2010 3:36 AM (GMT 0)
I'm sure that Lyme caused all these things to happen to me this past year. My mind was shot for nine months straight, I could barely put a sentence together. I have dealt with depression and anxiety and have struggled to continue to work while trying to get better. I believe that in my case, some medications have also contributed to my neurological challenges. I have tried to avoid medications that only treat the symptoms and focus on the meds that have the best potential to help me recover. I am definitely getting my brain back now and it has grately improved my outlook.

I'm so sorry that you are still having such a tough time. Be persistant with your treatment and I'm sure that you'll start seeing better days ahead.
Posted 7/9/2010 5:00 AM (GMT 0)
Yes, without a doubt, Lyme can do this. Here are some links:

Lyme, Depression, and Suicide
http://www.mentalhealthandillness.com/Articles/LymeDepressionAndSuicide.htm

The Neuropsychiatric Manifestations of Lyme Borreliosis
http://library.lymenet.org/domino/file.nsf/bbf2f15334c1f28585256613000317cc/87e8dfed931381b7852567c70012001f?openDocument

Neuro-Cognitive Lyme Disease (many excellent neuro-lyme links here)
http://www.lymeinfo.net/neuropsych.html

Realize that it is the disease and not you that is doing this. And then one thing to try is to start making a list of things that you enjoy, love, think are beautiful (things like rainbows, etc.), etc. And include on this list things you are thankful for, also. Add something (at least one thing) to this list daily if you can. When you run out of things to add, read at least a portion of the list every day to remind yourself of these things that are good and wonderful about life, about you, about your family, friends, pets, etc.

I hope this helps. Take care,
Posted 7/9/2010 5:27 AM (GMT 0)
depression/disfunctionalness, loss for words/ bad spelling

make a list is a great idea if make sure to tape it to your forehead so you remember where it is.

I believe it is the lyme disease and all the great stuff that comes with it that makes life so dark and insane some days.

I saw a homeopath once who could not descide what my myasm exactly was but it was a toss between mednorhiem and causticum.
Menorheim is ( ghonnerea) and costicuim is (shyiphillis).

He said if a patient comes to him and has a back ache and he gives him a remedy for it but when the guy comes back and says he no
longer has a back ache but he is depressed. The doctor said he knows he just made the patient sicker using the wrong remedy.

He said that the depression is always the deeper issue. He descided to give me medhorian and it worked like a dream. I was stunnd how fast it lifted the darkness and how awake my brain was and my posture completely changed. It was amazing. Eventually it wore off and by the next time I saw him I had found out I had lyme. So I asked him."What do ya got for the lyme???"
He shook his head back and forth and said."Same remedy, ...Mednorhiem." You have to get rid of the deeper issue and all these other
entities will not be able to take over. (something like that is what he explained)

He gave me another dose. 200cc and again I was flying within 20 minutes. I actually thought it was a little strong because i would be having the over emotional crying juggs.

Just to make it more interesting I was tested recently on a biomeridian machine. This takes the guess work out of it for the doctor and patient when it comes to the homeopathic myasms. So the machine picked CAUSTUCUM. when I read the description it suited my condition perfectly. (so did the mednorhiem ) but the causticum was even more accurate (syphliss)

so I took that every sunday for 3 weeks and I felt much more level and optomistic. I was a little high on the medhoriem) the causticum was more even.

so that is my homeopathy story and I still can not believe it myself how powerful that was. I was in treatment getting IV zethro and EDTA and rife and heavy metal detox. So it was challenging and I was alone through it all but something was really helping me in the depression dept and I believe it was the causticum. Also I was taking dlpheylaneline supplements.

I am not saying that causticum is the myasm for all lymers or that mednorhiem is either but that was my story.

I am not taking either anymore and feel like hell with pain in my feet but I am not in that black hole right now.
I am taking something else to get my seritonin up now because I have no energy and even though not in black hole
I just can't get up. I keep having to lay back down.

this post is too long..sorry girls. also if there was a gun in my house I would not be here anymore. I have had too many of those blackest days where all I do is visualize picking up the pistol and ending it and it made more sense in those times than anything else.

I think I used to have both patti and lyme+ email but can't find on this computer. you girls can always write me.
lf you want to share more on this. It is my biggest problem..the depression. and from what I have experiened with the pharmacuiticals ...they are dangerous and it is because of the lyme. My doctor will NOT prescribe antideprssants.
Posted 7/9/2010 6:11 AM (GMT 0)
there are about 5 other conditions listed on healing well that all those should be lyme tested.
and the depression is one of them. bipolar, skitzo, anxiety....what ever you want to call it.

I remember my doctor in Manhattan asked me three times..."are you SURE you don't have LYME?"
I grew up on Long Island. the only vacations we went on when we were kids was camping upstate.
When I was n my thirties and forties I had a house on Fire Island. I can post photo of me feeding the deer
off the deck of the house in my pajamas. Nice big close up of me and my friend with the deer big smiling face
in the middle of us.
My Father had a confirmed case of lyme since the 80's and never got propper treatment past first 2 weeks of antibiotics.
They told him it was all in his head. Yes a LYME SPECIALIST at Stoney brook told him that.
I never once researched lyme back then. My Dad has been to every specialist in NY and all they say is "Gee, were you an athlete? Your blood work is perfect."

The point is my psychiatrist recognized it but I refused to even go there. "Me ? LYME? ...No Way.My Dad has that...not me."
she is a psychopharmocologist. when I called her from Seattle this past year and asked her what would she prescribe while I was on doxcycline she said NOTHING>>>you have to be very carefull and go slow and see how you react. Make sure you are not alone. You can not just start experimenting with anything for depression or anxiety now with the antibiotics."

She told me if I come back to NY she will treat me along with lyme doctor and she has lot of lyme patients in NY.

Anyone can prescribe antidepressants. you don't have to be a shrink. that is when it gets really dangerous. We have very few lyme literate doctors or shrinks and we have every doctor writing you for the latest newest psych drugs.

The psychiatriac pharmacuetical field has got to come up with specific lyme drugs. I am so sick of hearing ."well what works for one may not work for another.' it is really it may work for one (temporarily) and very possibly make the other's situation way worse. I think most of these drugs are too STROG for people with bacteria in their brain.

maybe an antibiotic anti anxiety type thing. or antibiotic antidepressant.
Remember when everyone was given prozac and then there were some real flip out cases so they came up this this brilliant discovery.. You cand give ordinary intidepressants ssri to bipolar or they will flip out.

there was a time when MANIC was not a common condition. Then they started using the BIPOLAR diagnosis .

I think the flip outs who are beign called bipolar after getting worse on prozac really have lyme.

Even more important that LLMD .....I think the first one's to go back to the lab and school is the psychiatric field and attack this from brain chemistry being messed up from lyme bacteria.

Does anyone remember years ago when the government had allt he pharmacuital companies MOVE INTO the overcrowded psychiatriac hospitols and come up with some serious drugs to cure all this mental illness???? It was after that th new wave of all
these psychiatric drugs came out and became so common.

Now there are some psychiatric hospitols that have HOMEOPATH doctors working there to do the same thing.
I had a homeopath that was a psychiatrist for 25 yrs and went into hopeopathic medicine to treat these myasms and find right constitutional rememdies for mental ill.

just wanted to share that too on the mental thread
Posted 7/9/2010 2:16 PM (GMT 0)
Mental issues have been a huge issue in my family. My son spent the last three years he should have been in high school going in and out of mental hospitals getting one diagnosis after the other. Bi-polar, Cyclothymia, mood Disorder not otherwise specified (I loved that one!), Borderline Personality Disorder, and so on and so on. We tried mood stabilizers, anti-depressants, SSRI’s, MAO inhibitors, and a laundry list of other stuff. None of it helped him.

I finally met up with a “forensic nutritionist” who told me that he could help us. He was actually recommended by a good friend whose daughter has Lyme. I was fairly certain a nutritionist wasn’t going to be able to do much for us, I mean really, a nutritionist??? But we were at our wits end with this kid. Suicide attempts, cutting, running away from home, and worse. I was willing to try anything. So we told him my son’s history and he ordered tests.

When the results came back we learned a couple of key things that we needed to change that changed the way he felt in a matter of weeks. First of all, he had a severe allergy to eggs. When you eat things you are allergic to, I learned, your brain fills with histamine. Too much histamine in your body causes all kinds of disease patterns – gut issues, circulation issues, asthma, etc. Another thing we learned is that he was not manufacturing serotonin. There just wasn’t any in his brain. He could take anti-depressant medications until the cows come home but it wouldn’t make him produce serotonin. He needed some nutritional supplements that would help him turn the production of that back on in his brain. He also had very high levels of ammonia in his brain. We hear about that all of the time with Lyme. So he needed supplements in his diet that helped get that out of his system.

He has been on the protocol that this nutritionist has set up for him for about 3 months now and we can see a huge difference. Especially when he skips his pills for a few days and starts to feel bad, he did that at the beginning because I think he didn’t believe that the supplements could actually change the way he feels. But he doesn’t skip them any more! The last time he missed about 3-4 days he actually came to me and told me he can’t do that anymore and that he has to stay on these things. I am thrilled. This from a kid who told me he didn’t care if he lived to see 21 because he felt so bad all the time. He is slowly but surely getting his hope back that he may actually be ok one of these days. Which is huge for us, I thought so many times that his life was over, so many ambulance rides and emergency rooms. It is unbelievable hell to be in an ambulance when your kids heart stops and hear the EMT in the back trying his best to get it started again.

So, yes, mental issues can be caused by Lyme. It occurred to me the other day that I should have realized the mental issues were Lyme a long time ago since I knew that he was bitten on the head by a tick. It just never clicked before.

My other child also has Lyme and has been diagnosed with OCD. That is a whole other story. But a large part of my family’s Lyme experience has been with mental illness. I hear you and I feel for you. Message me if you are interested in the nutritionist’s information. He is actually Lyme literate and he does everything over the phone, you don’t even have to go to his office.

Marika
Posted 7/9/2010 3:13 PM (GMT 0)
Lyme, and Bartonella too, definitely can cause mental illness, including anxiety and depression. My LLMD gave me an article on this, but I don't have it in a form that I can send to you. The links that someone else gave should be helpful.

I have a lot of personal experience with this. My Lyme has always been more neurological since the beginning of my infection. I had anxiety, including random panic attacks, early on. I just wrote it off to the stress that I was under during that time, even though stress had never caused this type of reaction in me before. So did the doctors that I saw. They were too quick to prescribe drugs like Xanax to calm me down. It didn't really help. It wasn't until I started antibiotic treatment that I had any relief. Depression was also a problem, but the anxiety interfered more with my life since I couldn't do anything when I was in such a state. I took several different antidepressants to treat my insomnia. I should have had some of the "good" effects as well, but none of them ever made me feel better with my depression.

Perhaps the most direct evidence that the Lyme/Bartonella was causing my mental symptoms was a couple of years ago when I had to stop all of my antibiotics due to food poisoning. I had to stay off of all my medication for a month or more. I was fine for a couple of weeks, but then all of my symptoms, including the mental issues, came back with a vengeance. Not only did my anxiety and depression return, but I had terrible mood swings. I would flying into a terrifying rage in an instant. It was downright scary. I thought my moodiness from my hypothyroidism was bad, but this was a whole new level of craziness. I was finally able to resume my antibiotics, and the symptoms faded again. I rarely feel anxiety or depression anymore.

Hang in there. It took a long time for me and my doctor to work out the right combination of medications that worked for me. I'm currently on a pulsing schedule of doxycycline, zithromax, micobutin, and artemesinin. I also take plaquenil daily. The zithromax was one medication that seemed to have a direct effect on my mental problems.

This is probably the last thing you want to think about right now, but also consider your exercise level. As you feel able to, increase your exercise. It will have multiple benefits. Exercise has been proven to help alleviate some symptoms of depression. On top of that, increasing your circulation will help both the antibiotics and your own immune system fight the infection better. You can start with some simple like walking and then gradually work your way up to something more intense like biking, swimming, or jogging.

I hope this helps.
Posted 7/9/2010 3:20 PM (GMT 0)
Lyme can do all that, I believe. When it is in your brain and nervous system, there is no end to the havoc it can wreak. Are you detoxing a lot? Toxin buildup is what causes the nasty symptoms. Are you taking herbs or abx that cross the blood brain barrier to get this out of the brain?

I can't tell you how often I have asked God to take my life since getting neuro lyme. When I was on abx and herxing, I would literally lay on the floor in a ball, sobbing, praying the rosary - and I'm not Catholic! I felt like I was having a total breakdown. My doc gave me an anti-psychotic drug and it helped so much.

My world has narrowed so much. I do not live near family, so I must travel to see them, or they must stay with me. Both scenarios are difficult because I'm so sensitive to noise, light and motion. I have Bose noise-canceling headphones that I wear when it all gets too much and antivert to take if the dizziness hits. I can't go places that might be too noisy, can't do movies, beauty shops, so my hair is just growing long and I wear it up. I can't be in the sun too much because my eyes hurt, even wearing the darkest sunglasses I could get.

I will never be the grandma I want to be because of lyme and that hurts.

I am thankful that I was able to hold on to my part-time job, get to church when I can, and that I have a kind husband who really tries to understand me and doesn't complain. I can even listen to music again - verrrry carefully. Oh, and my little Callie girl (dog), who hangs right with me. Unless, of course, she has other plans. She is very cat-like.

Post Edited (Caldonia Sun) : 7/9/2010 9:27:47 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 7/10/2010 1:01 AM (GMT 0)
I thank all of you from deep in my heart. And my heart aches for all of you as well, because so many of you are sicker than I am, yet you are here for me so many times.

It is honest to God that I really needed to know, once again, that it's this disease and that it is as physical as it feels. I have been feeling so insane and hopeless that I began wondering if I have driven myself insane, made myself sick.

I DO want very much to tell those of you who speak of ending it all, because you must think of these things. As much as I find myself wanting to die, I also know deep inside that I dont want to. I don't want for this to be the end. Those thoughts hammer at me so hard and it makes no sense, because when I am feeling very weak and ill, I am AFRAID that I'm going to die, and I know I don't want to. I don't want to HAVE to.

It is the end of the anguish that I'm begging for -- something to make it all STOP. And you?

And THIS is the most important part, I believe. I no longer have a gun (couldn't do it that way, anyway), but I have pills. I could quietly slip away. But, starting with my dogs, I cannot desert them. There is no one in my family who could take care of them. I will NOT desert them, no matter what. I am ALL That they have, besides each other. If we were in Katrina, I would have had to stay with them. NOT as a martyr, but because I could NEVER leave them alone -- the torture in that would be worse than the starving and/or drowning.

Then I picture my poor parents. (in their 80's -- they live far away). They are so good, and altho my family is plenty big (but not near to me), I cannot bear the thought of their faces when they learn what I have done (if I did it) I cannot bear the thoughts of how badly they would hurt if I did this. ANd finally, my kids. No, they don't really need me anymore. But I can't, just can't hurt them like that.

As much as this disease has made me feel so alone, and the insanity part causes me to believe that no one really loves me and no one really cares, I still know how bad it would hurt others if I died, esp at my own hands.

They could never understand that the uninvited thoughts hammered at me til I couldn't stop it. They could never understand that I just wasn't able to 'think right'.

How angry and hurt would YOU be if your loved one did this?

What does scare me is the scrambled up, unbearable, messed up thoughts and head. I am scared that something will take over against my will -- that it will be so unbearable that I won't be able to stop it or help it.

On exercise -- yes, I know this helps. I have cured my own depression many times in the past w/ diet and exercise. I used to work out a lot, and altho I hated it, it made me feel better and I liked the way I felt and looked. Since I got sick a little over 3 yrs ago, I have lost all motivation to firm up anything, but at least my dogs kept me pretty active. We hiked at least 5 days per week, thru the woods for at least 45-50 min per day and closer to 2 hrs on the weekends. We did many leash walks in the mornings and the days we didn't go hiking. We still go, but not near as often and I get slower and weaker by the week. Our leash walks are very slow and we can't go near as far as we used to.

And I'm just not able to push myself anymore. That could very well be lyme + low thyroid + adrenal fatigue + chronic EBV -- makes perfect sense. Added to the fact that my rotoscoliosis is worsening by the minute -- as I've told on here before , I have 2 major rotating curves, from my neck all the way to my tailbone. My whole pelvis is off kilter and it hurts so bad to stand (at work) and walk.

Anyway -- that crap doesn't help much either and I'm sure contributes to a very bad attitude.

BUT, I am 1 week into new abx.... last time I felt major improvement after 60 days of HELL. Just don't know if I can last that long again, but what choice?

What choice do we all have?? I resent the hell out of having to push myself every second of every day (unless I'm on here) just to survive. And to have to do stuff while in intense pain and to have struggle every minute to get ahold of my freaking brain. And I can tell that my dogs are hurting, too. They aren't very nurturing (that's MY job) and they get pretty upset when I'm on my hands and knees, bawling. (Actually, 2 of my kids are hurting over it, themselves.)

I am so sorry for those of you going thru this yourselves. I don't even know how to help, except that I hope I was able to help you know that you have to hang on and not hurt those that you love and who love you. Even when you feel all alone.

In some ways, it has almost become a mission to continue to suffer so that I don't hurt those I love. Sucks and is not fair, but it's the truth. It has to be a mission.

I guesss -- the whole point of my post was to find out if this disease can REALLY make us this insane. Bucci, as hard a time as I had trying to understand what you wrote (couldn't quite grasp it), I feel some sense in it and have copied and saved it for a day I might read a little more clearly. It seems really important.

Thank you again, everybody. I guess we all have to try to hang on alittle longer.

PS: please tell me what you do when you are so screwed up and mentally crippled that you feel you need to go to a hospital?? This happens to me all the time, but when I think it thru, I know it wouldn't do any good.

PPS: What if we could get some Drs to just read thru these posts? To study them, to try to understand them? Might some of this controversy improve???
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