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How do I know if It's a Herx?

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Posted 12/22/2012 7:21 PM (GMT 0)
I took my first round of AdvaClear and UltraClear Renew this morning, and 30 minutes later I felt so hot that I wanted to run out into the snow and lay in it and my hands became hot and itchy, swollen with blood. How do I know if it's from the detox, or simply from illness?
Posted 12/23/2012 9:59 PM (GMT 0)
You really need to call your doctor about this! It doesn't sound like any kind of herx that I've heard of and could be an allergic reaction.
Posted 12/23/2012 11:41 PM (GMT 0)
Isn't feeling extremely hot/cold a herx? And can't blood flow into an area where toxins are high, causing said heat and itching? I'm not sure though...it went away after a while, but since I've started I'm hot then cold then hot then cold... I mean, what would be typical of a liver detox herx?
Posted 12/24/2012 1:46 AM (GMT 0)
My herxes only tend to come when I'm aggressively killing bacteria and protozoa with either herbs or antibiotics. I don't get herxing from detoxing. I would definitely check with your doctor.
Posted 12/24/2012 2:32 PM (GMT 0)
This is a good question. I've wondered about that too since my experience a few years ago with Bactrim. The first few days I was okay then something would come up in a sudden onset. Veins throbbing in my neck and the back of my knee, shooting pains in my legs, and headaches...and then it would just go away.
I wonder now that I'm doing herbals and waiting for an LLMD b/c I haven't had a herx and my symptoms feel like they are progressing so I'm thinking the herbs aren't working.. :(
Posted 12/24/2012 5:27 PM (GMT 0)
Actually, with herbs it's quite possible to avoid a herx for some. Herbs have many compounds that work together supporting the body, so it's not the same kind of stress on the body.

I've been herxing while on herbs, but I've been quite ill for many years now, so my bacteria load is quite high and my body functions have been compromised for so many years that some organs probably forgot what it's like to not struggle to function.

Someone asked Stephen Buhner this, and his simple response was - "Not everyone has herx reactions, so don’t worry about it." LOL!
Posted 12/24/2012 5:39 PM (GMT 0)
Anduncan,
I did have another thought on what you are experiencing. Maybe you should look to see if you have the symptoms of Raynard's Phenomenon -www.medicinenet.com/raynauds_phenomenon/page3.htm#what_are_raynauds_phenomenon_symptoms_and_signs

We can experience something similar because we can get blood that is too thick (hypercoagulation issues). It's actually one of the symptoms of Lyme, so it's pretty common.

LLMD's will usually either prescribe heparin shots or a natural substance to help thin the blood, Nattokinase.

This is something that you really need to talk over with your doc though. Blood that's too thin is a bad thing too.
Posted 12/25/2012 4:44 AM (GMT 0)
Now, after my 2nd and 3rd day of detox, I feel like I have the flu. I have been weak and shaky, have a headache, my skin hurts, having tremors, super moody/sad/mad/grumpy, and just bad.

A rheumatologist told me I don't have RP a few years back. But I have seen my blood upon a drawl, and it is very very thick. I'm not sure, I'll ask my LLMD. Thanks.
Posted 12/25/2012 1:30 PM (GMT 0)
So are your symptoms slowly backing down in intensity then? Or do you just have more coming up? The symptoms you mention are all symptoms of Lyme, and it would be typical to experience those during a herx.

It's possible to be so overloaded with toxins that even the act of removing some of them by detoxing will set off it's own herx - I had a heck of a time getting started detoxing! Every time I did something to detox, I had a pretty good increase in my symptoms and a migraine decided to join in every time as well!
Posted 12/25/2012 3:57 PM (GMT 0)
Yeah each round of detox I take sets off the flu-like symptoms and today an intense migraine was added. The symptoms have slowly gotten worse and are kind of at a plateau now, but with huge flare ups when i take my detox crap and at night. I've been sick for over 6 years and ans just started seeing an LLMD so it's possible my body really is riddled with toxins.
Posted 12/25/2012 4:46 PM (GMT 0)
I would suggest that you slow down on things until your body can adjust to what you are doing. Stressing out the body sure doesn't help it to heal. You can lower your dose amount or take less doses of the Advaclear and the Ultraclear renew.

Are you doing anything to help move the toxins out of the body - detox baths, dry skin brushing, drinking at least 64 ounces of lemon water? If not, I would highly suggest that you start these things - slowly of course! Otherwise, you just have all of these extra toxins floating around in your blood stream causing your issues. Your body needs help in directing them so that they can be expelled! Also having at least one good bowel movement each day will go a very long way to helping you heal!
Posted 12/25/2012 4:54 PM (GMT 0)
I just took my detox for the day, and I could feel a huge wave come over me. I got nauseous and felt like I would throw up. And had diarrhea. And I am in a fog, body heavy, muscles tense, hard to move. But I take epsom salt baths, which often make me feel worse, and I have about 10 bowel movements a day (thanks to IBS). I should drink more water though.
Posted 12/25/2012 5:19 PM (GMT 0)
It definitely sounds like you are in the same boat I was at first - you are creating your own herxes. Your body is likely overloaded with those toxins anyway, and the increase of toxins in the blood stream (from using those products) without the body being able to get rid of them fast enough is not helping the body to withstand or fight the infection(s).

As I said, I would encourage you to lower your doses of the Advaclear and the Ultraclear. With more toxins moving into your bloodstream than your body can remove at this point in time, you are only making your body weaker and less able to withstand the spread of the bacteria. When your body is struggling with dealing with the overload of toxins, it can't devote much needed energy to fight the infections.

Are you adding fresh lemon juice to your water? If you are having muscle issues (cramps, spasms, twitching), then I would say don't use lemon juice though, as it increases these issues if you already have them.

Dry skin brushing will help your skin get into detoxing your body as well, but it can only do this effectively when there isn't a bunch of dead skin cells hanging on - this is why we encourage all to dry skin brush.
Posted 12/25/2012 5:33 PM (GMT 0)
Thank you for the input and advice. I've never put lemon juice in the water. I have muscle twitches and myoclonic jerks, would the lemon juice affect that?
Posted 12/25/2012 5:55 PM (GMT 0)
Yes! It will likely increase their severity and/or their frequency (it does both for me) - so please don't use the lemon juice!! I discovered this the hard way, and when I asked my doc about it, she confirmed this as well.

Of course you can do what you will with my suggestions, as that's all they are is suggestions that are based on what I've read, learned from this site, or experienced myself. Please do talk with your LLMD about these issues when you go to your next appt. Hopefully s/he understands the importance of detoxing and how to help you do this more effectively.
Posted 12/25/2012 7:08 PM (GMT 0)
Okay great, thank you for the advice!
Posted 12/25/2012 9:23 PM (GMT 0)
I sure hope you feel better soon!! :-)
Posted 12/25/2012 10:01 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks! (:
Posted 12/26/2012 12:14 AM (GMT 0)
You are so very welcome! :-)
Posted 12/26/2012 1:23 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Anduncan and welcome!

Sorry you are having a rough time.  I just read the ingredients in both the Advaclear and Ultraclear Renew and it's very possible that you could be having an allergic reaction to one or more of the ingredients in both products in my non-medical opinion, not a herx.

Did a doctor recommend both these supplements to you?   If so, the doctor should have tested you for each ingredient in my opinion.  Also, are you taking anything else? 

Here are the ingredients:

UltraClear Renew:

EACH SERVING CONTAINS:

Vitamin A (as beta-carotene) 4,000 IU
Vitamin A (as retinyl palmitate) 1,000 IU
Vitamin C (as ascorbic acid) 300 mg
Calcium (as calcium citrate) 150 mg
Iron 1 mg
Vitamin D (as cholecalciferol) 35 IU
Vitamin E (as d-alpha tocopheryl acetate) 42 IU
Thiamin (as thiamin HCl) 2 mg
Riboflavin 2 mg
Niacin (as niacinamide) 7 mg
Vitamin B6 (as pyridoxine HCl) 3.4 mg
Folate (as folic acid) 80 mcg
Vitamin B12 (as cyanocobalamin) 3.6 mcg
Biotin 135 mcg
Pantothenic Acid (as D-calcium pantothenate) 36 mg
Phosphorus 230 mg
Iodine (as potassium iodide) 53 mcg
Magnesium (as magnesium citrate, magnesium chloride, and magnesium sulfate) 160 mg
Zinc (as zinc gluconate) 10 mg
Copper (as copper gluconate) 1 mg
Manganese 1 mg
Chromium (as chromium polynicotinate) 50 mcg
Proprietary Spent Hops (Humulus lupulus) Powder 1,000 mg
L-Glycine 800 mg
Prune (Prunus domestica) Skin Extract 125 mg
L-Glutamine 100 mg
Watercress (Nasturtium officinale) Whole Plant Extract 67 mg
Ellagic Acid [from pomegranate (Punica granatum) Whole Fruit Extract] 50 mg
DL-Methionine 50 mg
L-Threonine 35 mg
L-Lysine (as L-lysine HCl) 35 mg
Sulfate (magnesium sulfate) 20 mg
L-Cysteine (as L-cysteine HCl) 15 mg
Catechins (from decaffeinated green tea leaf, Camellia sinensis) 15 mg

Other Ingredients: Rice protein concentrate, rice syrup solids, fructose, natural flavors, partially hydrolyzed guar gum, olive oil, medium chain triglycerides, cellulose gum, and silica.

Advaclear:

Supplement Facts:
 2 capsules contain:
Vitamin A 2,500 IU
---[33% (834 IU) as retinyl palmitate and 67% (1,666 IU) as beta-carotene]
Vitamin C (as magnesium ascorbate) 133mg
Vitamin D (as cholecalciferol) 33 IU
Vitamin E 66 IU
---(as d-alpha tocopheryl acetate and mixed tocopherols)
Thiamin (as thiamin mononitrate) 10mg
Riboflavin 5mg
Niacin (as niacinamide and niacin) 23mg
Vitamin B6 (as pyridoxine hydrochloride) 17mg
Folate 267mcg
---(as L-5-methyl tetrahydrofolate and 5-formyl tetrahydrofolate)
Vitamin B12 (as cyanocobalamin) 33mcg
Biotin 66mcg
Pantothenic Acid (as D-calcium pantothenate) 33mg
Magnesium (as magnesium ascorbate) 19mg
Zinc (as zinc citrate) 6.5mg
Selenium (as selenomethionine) 50mcg
Copper (as copper citrate) 0.65mg
Manganese (as manganese citrate) 1.65mg
Molybdenum (as molybdenum amino acid chelate) 66mcg
N-Acetylcysteine 66mg
Sodium Sulfate 100mg
Taurine 117mg
Choline (as choline bitartrate) 66mg
Herbs:
Silymarin (as silybin, silychristin, silydianin) 50mg
---(from milk thistle seed extract, Silybum marianum)
Catechins 34mg
Epigallocatechingallate (EGCG) 22mg
---(from decaffeinated green tea leaf, Camellia sinensis)
Artichoke Leaf Extract (Cynara scolymus) 166mg
---(containing cynarin and chlorogenic acid)
Watercress Whole Plant 4:1 Extract (Nasturtium officinale) 34mg
Ellagic Acid 33mg
---(from pomegranate rind extract, Punica granatum)
Other Ingredients: hydroxypropyl methylcellulose, magnesium stearate, and silica.
Contains NO: wheat, gluten, yeast, soy, dairy products, nuts, tree nuts, fish, crustacean shellfish, or artificial colors, sweeteners or preservatives. 

Recommended Use:
Adults: Take two capsules one to three times daily or as directed by your healthcare practitioner.

Warning:
If pregnant or nursing or taking medications, consult your healthcare practitioner before use. Keep out of the reach of children.

Vitamin A Warning: Excess Vitamin A intake may be toxic and may increase the risk of birth defects. Pregnant women and women who may become pregnant should not exceed 5,000 IU of pre-formed vitamin A (retinyl acetate or retinyl palmitate) per day. It is also recommended that children under four should not regularly consume more than 2,500 IU per day.

Anyway, why not try stopping both these products and start with the detox baths (I know you said you have done them) but put less epsom salts in the bath water, make sure the water is warm and not hot, and only stay in for about 10 minutes.   Also drink lots of water with fresh lemon juice added during the bath and during the day.

I take a supplement called Green Vibrance which contains lots of vitamins, probiotics, anti-oxidents, etc. and it's all organic.   You can google the ingredients (I would list them but this post is long enough already!).

Hope this helps, Denise

Posted 12/26/2012 1:44 PM (GMT 0)
Hi again,
I was just reading about taking too much Vitamin A (there's alot of this vitamin in both products):

This could be causing your reaction (in my non-medical opinion):

http://www.livestrong.com/article/342827-vitamin-a-overdose-effects-warnings/
Posted 12/26/2012 4:17 PM (GMT 0)
Denise,

I am also currently taking betaine/pepsin, glutathione, LVR, microb-x, a probiotic, a digestive enzymes supplement and inflammacore. On Friday I will add magnesium supplement. I was given all of this by my LLMD. And I know others who have taken the same regiment, though I know nothing about the possible allergies. My doctor did run a celiac cascade, which I don't know the results of yet.

The vitamin A overload makes sense also, I will talk to him about it.

Thank you!
Posted 12/26/2012 4:34 PM (GMT 0)
I looked up toxic levels of vitamin A, and I found it doesn't become toxic until around 25,000 IU a day, but I'm finding several different numbers. Between the AdvaClear and UltraClearRenew, I'm taking in 15,000 IU. The majority of what I'm taking in is in the form of beta-carotene, which (apparently) is not toxic because it hasn't been converted into vitamin A yet (the most it would do is turn my skin a yellow-orange color). So, I'm not quite sure.

Post Edited (Anduncan) : 12/26/2012 9:47:31 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 12/26/2012 10:50 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Anduncan,

I'm glad you will be talking with your doctor.  As far as others who are taking the same supplements as you, just remember that everyone is different and because one protocol works for one person doesn't mean it works for everyone.

The important thing is that you start feeling positive results from your protocol and that you trust your doctor.  Just seems like so many supplements to me but again, that's my opinion.

If I had to do it all over again, I would not take any supplements, I would just concentrate on detoxing (detox baths, foot baths, dry skin brushing, changing my diet, etc.).  Then I would slowly add 1 supplement or my in case, one botanical at a time to see what was working and what wasn't.  I kept it simple. 

When I started Dr. Jernigan's protocol I only took one botanical to start.  One of the reasons I chose that protocol was because Dr. Jernigan grows his own herbs, harvests them and tests them so I knew exactly what I was getting and where I was getting it from. 

I hope this protocol works for you and if not, know you have options, okay?

Good luck!

Denise

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