A-Bart success

What's A-Bart?

Margaret

We used A-Bart throughout our daughter's 2 year abx treatment. Initially it produced severe bartonella symptom herxes (long bone pain, pick-like headache, emotional lability, severe fatigue) but we were eventually able to make it to 30 drops BID and stay there for about 6 months. This was while she was using other abx for bart/babs as well (mino/azith/malarone/plaquinel/tindamax). We hit it hard!

When we weaned from abx, I weaned her from A-Bart as well. I was working on introducing Buhner herbals and didn't want to confound anything.

After 2 months of being off A-Bart I reintroduced it and the herxing started all over again, and with the severity we had initially seen 2 years ago - at 2 drops BID.

Larger doses of the antimicrobial herbs from Buhner's bartonella protocol (sida acuta, houttuynia) didn't produce the bartonella-associated herx (long bone pain, pick-like headache etc) that A-Bart did. They did produce herxes of panic attacks though. And the herb he uses for protozoan infections (cryptolepis) produced a babesia-associated herx (air hunger, sighing, chest pressure), but again no bartonella herx.

So, in my opinion, A-Bart appears to produce herx reactions, which would make you think that it is killing bartonella. But if 6 months of high dosages (along with other abx) isn't enough to decrease the load to a point where there is no herxing, I'm not sure it is productive. To be fair our LLMD doesn't use any of the BW detox remedies, so perhaps we might have been more successful with A-Bart if we had used the proper detox remedy along with it.

Yes that is a good point. Maybe A-Bart doesn't work then as it just aggravates the bacteria.

In my experience I have had 2 Bart treatments. Rifampin and Septra DS (Bactrim in the US). Both pretty much just eliminated the symptoms completely. There was no "Bartonella Herx". Just a total resolution of my Bart symptoms. But when I switched to Septra for 1 day there was a flare up of Bartonella symptoms and that was it. They have been suppressed since and now I just have lyme symptoms.

LymePickle- I just want to clarify that I do believe that a herx in general is a good sign. You were less likely to herx probably because you treated shortly after being infected.

In the case of Rowingmom's daughter it is quite possible that longer treatment of let's say 12-18 months would've cleared the Bart symptoms. Herbs are generally not as powerful as abx and we all know it can take years of abx to clear Lyme and co. Nobody knows for sure if it was just aggravating it or slowly killing and there's no rule how long you can or need to herx. Don't automatically get down on A-bart. It may have been doing the job plus everyone is different. The person who developed the Synergy Protocol now feels symptom free after all the herxing so there's a case where it wasn't just bacterial aggravation.

That's great Kris! Very encouraging. I seemed to have worked through the fatigue herx which can be a bit rough but that seems to be in the past now. I'm looking forward to seeing if that means it has cleared that symptom. Time will tell. Also, the low-level headaches have seemed to have lessened in frequency but I don't want to jump the gun as they're not an every day occurrence. I am encouraged though. The rashes continue but it's actually nice to see some herxing continue or I would actually worry. Saw some streaks today on my back which I only see when treating. Bart is still rearing his ugly head..lol

LymePickle said...
I guess my main concern is that the Bartonella may come back right away if I stop these antibiotics. That's why I wanted to know about A-Bart. I'd hate to take 2 steps forward and then 10 steps back.

Bartonella is tough.  I would go after it with more than just A-Bart if you are withdrawing abx.  Use A-Bart, but I would also use other bart herbs as well.  See Buhner and the Synergy protocol mentioned above.  Don't forget detox, and Buhner has some good anti-inflammatory herbs for pain.

On Buhner's bartonella protocol I pretty much herxed from last April through October.  It wasn't bad, but I had some exercise intolerance that wouldn't clear up (lots of muscle/body inflammation).  I kept at the exercise anyway.  Since November (which is also when we added cryptolepis) the exercise intolerance has lifted.  Sure my muscles ache after doing weights, but only in the muscles I worked, not my whole body, which had been the case before. 

Yes the Cryptolepis, Sida Acuta, Chanca Piedra and I think maybe the Anamu as well.

Yawning fits is Babs? Wow didn't know that. I think you may be right because I was recently reading a post from someone who's husband died from it and some of his Babs symptoms were just like mine (light night sweats and low-level headaches). I also get air hunger though very infrequently. I think the bouts of chills and flu-like feelings I get could also be from Babesia. Thanks for pointing that out because I was always on the fence about whether I had it only because you hear those with Babs tend to be the sickest and I don't consider myself to be very sick.

The only time our daughter developed any symptoms of babesia (she tested negative for microti) was on high doses of cryptolepis. She was yawning and sighing and complaining of chest pressure (not chest pain) with 15 drops CSA (combo of cryptolepis/sida/alchornea) TID. She has never had other symptoms of babesia: soaking sweats, headaches (other than skull pain), chills, large muscle pain, nothing.

Both the LLMD and myself were suprised to see babs symptoms show with the cryptolepis challenge.

After bringing her down to 10 drops BID the symptoms resolved, but she retained the improvements (improved executive function and cognative ability).  After 3 months at that dosage I have recently increased her to 15 drops BID with further cognative improvement - almost top of class in math, and further improvements in spatial abilities - and no herxing.  She is now a far cry from the Aspergerish child with ADD, sound/light/touch sensitivities and an inability to draw a stick figure with limbs in the correct place (she used to draw people with legs on the top of the head). 

Her teacher actually called the other day to say what an improvement he has seen in her abilities!  He had no idea that I had changed her protocol. 

Malarone didn't give her this babx herx, but made her executive function and cognative ability better. The LLMD didn't try increasing dosages of malarone though.

For us, cryptolepis/sida/alchornea works as well as malarone.

If you are talking about seibertneurolyme, bea is a wonderful person who is trying to get the word out about lyme and co. I think too much of their time was spent using IDSA/CDC protocols and consulting closed-minded doctors.  She doesn't want what happened to her husband to happen to anyone else.  Apparently the doctors refused to believe her husband even had babesia, or test properly for it (and they certainly wouldn't treat without positive test results) until the day before he died.

She is a very good source of pertinent information, especially on babesia. Don't let the fact that her husband passed on scare you. She is on the forums because she knows that help is possible. Just not from an IDSA standpoint.

Well I have it and I'm scared to die because I have six kiddos that need me. My 11 yr old son has it too, and likely my other kids. My 11 yr old had night sweats even as an infant and I always thought it was really weird. He was born with an amazing thick head if hair and it would literally be soaked while he slept. He still has bad night sweats. He just started AL COMPLEX and the he started certain in a week. After 10 days on ceftin his LLMD wants to start minocycline too.

I honestly have felt complete sorrow, horror and terror at times. Waves of grief and despair wash over me and I feel like I'm drowning. It's one thing for me to be sick but to look at my six children and see their dark circles, and to know all their complaints and wondering what war is going on in there little bodies. I feel so helpless at times. I just get on my knees and pray.

Post Edited (Maine76) : 3/31/2014 11:44:57 AM (GMT-6)

Well I now ordered some of this. Yikes is it ever expensive ! I wonder if it's worth it? It doesn't hurt to try though.

Maine76... I completely understand your feelings... I would totally feel the same way. I look at my 3 healthy children and say to myself " thank god it was me who got Lyme and not them... It would be 10 times worse to see my children suffer like this and lose out on their childhood". I really don't know how you do it... Can't imagine being in your shoes. Stay strong and if you have those mentally bad days, we're here...vent away. (((Hugs!)))

LymePickle said...
A-Bart is the Byron White formula herbal tincture that is supposed to be unique for treating Bartonella.. It comes in little medicine dropper bottles like the Cowden herbs banderol and samento.

Hey I read your signature line, I'm sure you probably know this but making sure...Rifampin isn't supposed to be taken with any alcohol whatsoever. I've spoken with multiple pharmacists about this. I know that the cowden protocol is alcohol based also, so be careful!!