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Good Herbal Bartonella treatment? Houttuynia?

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Posted 5/17/2014 2:28 AM (GMT 0)
I'd like to start an herbal treatment for Bartonella. What have you tried and what has helped?

I tried Houttuynia. Took 1 drop the first day and was fine. I took 2 drops the following day and had bad diarrhea the next day. It seemed like i reacted to the herb and stopped taking it. The diarrhea stayed bad for about 5 days and bowels are still affected. I'm normally quite constipated from the pain meds and take a fiber supplement plus a solo softener. I stopped taking all that and still have looser stools than normal. It seems like my flora ha changed since taking this herb, even though I took so little of it.

I still would like to treat the Bartonella with something....

Thanks!
Posted 5/17/2014 3:54 AM (GMT 0)
Are you taking antibiotics now ?? ... geeez, I guess anything is possible, but if you are taking the antibiotics you have listed, it is strange that 2 drops of an herb would do that .... maybe you could try another form of Houttuynia, like Dr Zhang's - a capsule ...

I know that anything w/ alcohol ( ie Nurtamedix tinctures ) usually don't sit well w/ me ...

Are you sensitive to alcohol in general ?
Posted 5/17/2014 3:58 AM (GMT 0)
oops, sorry, I forgot to add this:

I have had what are believed to be the classic bartonella red lines appear on my skin after taking Dr Zhang's Artemisiae and Allicin ( garlic ) and when I tried Argentyn 23 ( which is a colloidal silver )
Posted 5/17/2014 2:48 PM (GMT 0)
Tano.... I know, I thought it was strange too that only two drops of an herb would do that, but I am on 3 antibiotics too. I am taking the Nutramedix brand. I rarely drink alcohol but am not sensitive to alcohol, especially the tiny amount taken with the herb. I'm allergic to sulfites, so I don't do great with wine, makes me terribly sleepy. Yeah, maybe Dr. zhangs formulation would agree better with me. Still nervous to try Houttuynia again in general though :/ .

WWJD20... I'll checkout the synergy protocol you suggested. Glad to hear its helping you!
Posted 5/17/2014 3:53 PM (GMT 0)
It's quite possible that it wasn't a reaction to the herb per se, but that the dose you took was too strong for you. Many who have used Houttuynia have herxed pretty good. Houttuynia is a very strong herb when it comes to treating Bartonella. I used the leaf and made a weak tea to treat and still herxed for 3 weeks long!

Since it's something you still have, you may want to give it another try, being careful to dilute just one drop in a couple of ounces of water for at least a week - then if you are still okay, try going to two drops diluted in a couple ounces of water and staying on that dose for at least a week and so on.
Posted 5/17/2014 5:10 PM (GMT 0)
I've ordered hottunyia tea from China. I think it's called efuton, the company. No, not associated with this company. It's already in the teabag, so it's ready to go. Just came in the mail, so I haven't tried it yet.
Posted 5/18/2014 6:00 PM (GMT 0)
Louise, please do be careful - if it's not listed on the box, it will be very hard to tell just how much of the Houttuynia you will be getting in each dose. Many that have used Houttuynia have found that it can cause a pretty good herx.
Posted 5/18/2014 6:11 PM (GMT 0)
Make sure the quality is good too, since China has so much pollution.
Posted 5/18/2014 6:59 PM (GMT 0)
From Buhner's web page

http://buhnerhealinglyme.com/

BARTONELLA
Research is ongoing, this is the most up to date protocol:
• Sida acuta tincture (from Woodland Essence or [email protected]) ¼ tsp 3x day for 30 days

          We use 15 drops  (1/8 tsp) 3x daily
• Hawthorn tincture, same

          We use 15 drops (1/8 tsp) 3x daily 
• Japanese knotweed, (tincture, same dose (from same sources as Sida acuta, above), or capsules from Green Dragon Botanicals 2 capsules 3x daily)

          We use 1/4 tsp tincture and 1/4 organic powdered herb from 1st Chinese Herbs both 3x daily 
• EGCG 400mg +- daily

          We drink 3 cups organic japanese green tea daily 
• Houttuynia (Yu Xing Cao – 1st Chinese Herbs, powder – use “LYME” code at checkout for 10% off) 1 tbl daily

           We use 1/4 tsp powdered herb made into tea (drink the herb along with the tea) 3x daily
• L-arginine 5000 mg daily in divided doses

           We don't use this 
• Milk Thistle seed, standardized, 1200 mg daily

           We use 500 mg daily 
All for 30 days.
PLEASE NOTE: If you have active herpes, chicken pox, or shingles DO NOT USE L-arginine. see also: bartonella

We found the dosages for everything except Japanese knotweed to be too high for us to tolerate. So we are using lower dosages for extended periods. 1 year now and doing really, really well with no remaining symptoms for either my daughter or myself.

We have added CSA (15 drops 2x daily) to the above list as well. I find that the more antimicrobials we add, the better we do. An organic cilantro tincture (10 drops 3x daily) has helped significantly with detoxing. We are not using l-arginine because I can't rule out viral infection.

The dosages we use may not be suitable for you.  If you use a multi-herb protocol you will need to add herbs one at a time to guage your response.  When changing dosages or adding herbs I make no more than one change every 10 days.

Posted 5/18/2014 8:46 PM (GMT 0)

WWJD20 said...
Hi Inspiredby3,

You should check out the Synergy Protocol, (link is in my signature)

I have a horrible Bart infection and with this protocol I'm seeing less and less Bart symptoms. I've also seen lots of the classic red lines form all over my body, red blotchy patches on my hands and feet. But much less tingling and "movement"/crawling..... Bart doesn't go down easy though...

I encourage you to read the information in the link, especially the bartenolla page. Feel free to email me:)

 

WWJD20, thank you for the link to the Synergy Protocol.  That's very interesting!  How are you doing on it?   It's a lot to process, and buy.  I hope you don't mind me asking where you bought your moringa and Blood of Dragon.  Thank you.

Posted 5/18/2014 9:49 PM (GMT 0)
Are the red lines itchy, and do they burn?

Just curious, because I thought whatever I was having was hives.

Margaret
Posted 5/18/2014 10:32 PM (GMT 0)
But they are streaky red lines that itch like crazy.

On another topic, it seems to me both Buhner and Cowden, though both good protocols, just push too many herbs.

Margaret
Posted 5/18/2014 11:39 PM (GMT 0)
Teragram, because of your intestinal issues (I think it's UC isn't it?) your entire system is very sensitive to all anti-infective herbs. You really need to be in control of your UC (??) before you will be able to use the herbs or any other anti-infective herbs or meds.

Otherwise, Cowden, Buhner and others are fine for most people.
Posted 5/19/2014 12:10 AM (GMT 0)
Hi Margaret, the red lines I get usually do NOT itch - however, I have had a softball-size rash on my left side chest for 3 1/2 years, and it starts to itch when my symptoms get bad ... Back a few months ago I was experimenting on my own w/ different vitamins and minerals ( 5-MTHF, zinc, etc ) and that rash on my chest began to fade for the first time in years ...

Every lyme doc I have showed the rash to was perplexed ( it is NOT a bull-eye ) ... The only answer I ever got was from a MD dermatologist who had just opened his own holistic center - he said he was sure it was mast cells, but did not want to commit to saying "mastocytosis" ...

I am 100% convinced that there is a histamine issue involved with herxing, lyme, bartonella, etc , and it is correcting this issue that I feel needs to be addressed ...
Posted 5/19/2014 1:00 AM (GMT 0)
WWJD,
That's so great to hear! I guess that means it helped your MS, too?
It's good news that there's a natural way to deal with it.

I've had chronic fatigue and all the other issues that go along with Lyme since the early 1980's. Back then the focus was placed on candida and the candida diet. I have been trying to deal with all the issues first through different diets, then through chiropractors, even chiropractors using kinesiology, well tons of stuff. I never focused specifically on Lyme. Recently I started to have a lot of histamine issues and had been reading at a fb page for mast cell issues. One day someone asked what brings on mast cell issues. A LOT of people said theirs started with a Lyme infection, and then it all made sense. Although I do think I had a pre-existing condition that perhaps made me susceptible to Lyme, such as heavy metal toxicity.

Thank you again
Posted 5/19/2014 1:58 AM (GMT 0)
Rowingmom... Thank you for posting Buhner's protocol along with what exactly you're taking. That is a lot of supplements to take. I'm already taking a handful of pills 3 times a day. I am taking the Japanese Knotweed, 400mg capsules, 3 times a day so far. I take a liver regenerator supplement that has Milk Thistle in it.

It seems if I can just start 1 herb at a time and increase 1 at a time, it will be months before all will be included and going up in dose will be a very slow process :/.... I wish there was a faster way, but I know it has to be done this way.

Traveler... I think I'll try your suggestion. I did well with the 1 drop. I'll stick with that for a good week or so to allow my body to get used to the herb before going up to 2 drops. Hopefully this will allow me to take the herb and I won't have the diarrhea problem. My stools are still not back to normal and its been close to 2 weeks since I took the herb last.
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