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Posted 9/19/2014 12:32 AM (GMT 0)
Just wondering what everyone thinks I should do next for treatment?

I'm currently no longer herxing or feeling any symptoms.



But to be honest I really don't trust these germs. I'm going to treat for 6 months - 1 year symptom free rather than the recommended 2 months symptom free that most LLMDs recommend. I just don't trust these germs at all and really don't want them to come back.



^^EDITED^^



I also plan on buying an ozone machine to clean out tissues as I've heard lots of people have had success with ozone machines. I may get prozolone injections into all my joints, just to ensure that they are sterilized as I really don't want any germs left over. I should also invenst in an IR sauna as I haven't been doing enough detoxing.



I need to do the cured twice protocol as well since this is the only protocol I know of that cured Lyme disease twice.



I also plan on doing the green dragons botanicals LB core for 6 months.



Then I need to do Dr. Js protocol for 6 months with the borrelegon and neuro de-tox. This has also completely healed a few people and seems like a useful way to heal.



After that I will have to do the klinghardt cocktail which includes many great herbs.



^^EDITED^^


So I got lots more treatments to do, after I finish all these treatments I will take the chronic tonic.



I will also need to fill heavy metal detoxing into my recovery as well since I am slightly toxic in both lead and mercury.



Does anyone have any other suggestions?

Post Edited By Moderator (opugirl) : 9/18/2014 7:04:22 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 9/19/2014 12:36 AM (GMT 0)
lol....Lymepickle - nothing could survive all that.

If you're symptom free right now...do you think you need to do all that?
Maybe you're not herxing because you've killed them all...don't know if you need to increase the antibiotic dosage.
Posted 9/19/2014 12:53 AM (GMT 0)
What you are proposing is extremely dangerous and I really hope that 1)You talk to your doctors about this and 2) that others on this board realize how dangerous that is.

You could end up causing permanent damage that is not repairable...

**Lymepickle, please contact me about this posting- I have edited information and would like for you to understand why - Thanks**
Posted 9/19/2014 1:42 AM (GMT 0)
Why is it dangerous? I already talked to my Doctors about these and it results in effective treatments.

Amoxicillin isn't harmful to the body. It is only harmful in that it impacts intestinal flora. Higher dosing gets antibiotics deeper into tissues like the brain, eyes, and tendons.

The K* cocktail is not something that is dangerous, nor is the dr. J protocol.

Sorry I don't see any harm in these therapies. Also letting it come back and pulsing on days that it cycles is putting lots of people in remission. This is cyclical pulsing and is proven to be highly effective. One simply has to keep track of their symptoms over months and pulsing on certain dates. Stopping antibiotics helps kick start the Lyme diseases metabolism so it can once again be succepible to antibiotic treatment.

Lyme can cause damage that is irrepairable. Not treating it is a bigger threat than over treating. The damage from abx is very minimal, however I will definitely agree that certin abx like tinidazole, metronidazole, and Fluorquinolones are harmful esspecially used at high doses or even long term. Tetracyclines, macrolides are tiny bit harmful to mitochondria via oxidation. Cell wall drugs just aren't harmful. I already looked into all these therapies and I question every single drug that goes into my body and need to know exactly how it works, it's mechanism of action, how it can negatively impact my body, etc, before going about the therapy.
Posted 9/19/2014 1:47 AM (GMT 0)
I don't think Opugirl is questioning the pulsing...as that is something that is accepted by many LL Docs.
I have seen some members posts - who are pulsing.

I think she is concerned about the high levels...I can't remember what they were...but at a glance they were higher than the usual recommended doses, weren't they?
Posted 9/19/2014 2:13 AM (GMT 0)
But those doses are used to successfully treat Lyme. Honestly! I read so much asked so many questions to my LLDs, read so many LLD blogs, Lyme research articles, and read so many Lyme books that I think it gets me into trouble with some of my posts on here.
Posted 9/19/2014 2:50 AM (GMT 0)
Concerned for you. If you have no symptoms I would celebrate and move on with my life. I would do some type of light maintenance for a year or so but not all that. You are going to do more harm than good. Too many antibiotics at super high levels can do serious harm and irreversible damage. Doing all this is completely unnecessary as well. I also think that at some point you can't blame every little ache or pain on lyme.

If I were you I'd stop researching lyme. Don't look it up anymore. Then I would come off my antibiotics after 2 months symptom free. Then I would transition to 1 herbal protocol and stay with it for one year. Assuming no return of lyme, then I would go to a detox clinic and just get everything out of my system. Then I would focus on food, light supplement and home detox therapy moving forward and call it a day.
Posted 9/19/2014 5:20 AM (GMT 0)
One of the great things that happened to me through this was to become so broke. I did not have money for anything else than just the absolute basics and I improved regardless. I agree with Louise. There are things your are supposed to do with your life and with your money and it's not trying to chase every "cure" out there. I would seriously examine where these thoughts are coming from. Are you afraid you will get sick again? If that's the case you will regardless what protocol you do. Today I quit most of Lyme groups on FB. They were not adding to my sanity. I will stay here because I feel like I can be useful to some people here but otherwise… I am off to live my life. With minimum meds, detox, healthy lifestyle, zero stress, and FUN! I have been through enough trauma and don't need to focus on treatments upon treatments anymore. I am not going to be an eternal patient. Too much stuff to do, people to see, places to go… I am done with being sick and tired and tired of being sick.
Posted 9/19/2014 12:31 PM (GMT 0)
Lymepickle, No doctor would prescribe taking 8 grams of antibiotics in one day let alone in one dosing. Their license would be suspended immediately. I have not seen one article talking about anything close to these dosages either.

I would agree with the other posters that long term maintenance is fine with herbals but your best bet is to be under the guidance of an herbalist and to follow their protocol, which most likely they will attune to your suggestions as long as it isn't overkill, rather then making up your own.
Posted 9/19/2014 12:40 PM (GMT 0)
Right now my cure consists of finding skis on Craigslist. Going to Wachussett as soon as first snow falls.
Posted 9/19/2014 1:29 PM (GMT 0)
Good one, Lymebabe!!

Lymepickle, I too feel great concerns on what you are setting out to do - I've seen several people from this forum go 'all out' like that and throw everything including the kitchen sink at these infections - only to wind up worse off than when they started - then they had to start all over again. I worry that you are headed down that same path.

I would encourage you to not do so much, that if you are still having symptoms to switch over to all Buhner's (as Mister Mike said), or just stop and see if those symptoms will resolve.

Depending on what symptoms you are still having, it may just take some time for them to respond to the healing that is happening - for example, if your symptoms are from nerve injury - it takes time for them to heal - a long time. It can take up to 7 years for a nerve to completely heal (if it's going to) after being severed. Now I know that your don't have any nerves that were actually severed (at least I hope you have never experienced that!), but that shows you it takes a while.
Posted 9/19/2014 2:05 PM (GMT 0)
Okay these were actually just ideas I had in my mind.

I am still going on the rifampin based treatment as I don't believe bartonella or anaplasma are fully treated yet. They require 6 months. I'm only 2 months in since my last bartonella relapse so I needed to start from scratch again. So I have 4 more months of antibiotics ahead of me anyways.

I was actually just looking for other suggestions.
Posted 9/19/2014 2:12 PM (GMT 0)
Opugirl - the 6 grams of amoxicillin dosaging of amoxicillin is actually used my our famous LLMD, and another LLMD. It is nearly as effective as IV rocephin. Dosages that high are used and the LLMDs who use them still have their licences.

I was not implying take 8 grams in one dosing. I meant spread out through the day. Amoxicillin 6 grams is taken 3 times a day as 2 gram doses every 8 hours. The biaxin would be taken twice daily. But maybe both high dose biaxin and high dose amoxicillin together not sure... But I think they could be alternated.
Posted 9/19/2014 4:04 PM (GMT 0)
Lymepickle - I do understand where you're coming from! But, I'm wondering, too, if some of your residual symptoms are just going to resolve with time...there is some healing that may need to happen, especially like Trave said - if it's nerve related. I did read about one lady who was still a little symptomatic after finishing her treatment...and it took two to three months before she was completely healed. (and she had stopped all treatment)

Also, I think Lyme is quite the "head trip" - and it may be hard to let go of it all. It becomes our life...and maybe it's hard to move on? Not sure, but just a thought?

If almost all your symptoms are gone..then shouldn't you be ramping down, rather than ramping up?

Whatever you do, be careful...and don't overdo it!!!
Posted 9/19/2014 6:06 PM (GMT 0)
You should research quorum communication between bacteria and the persistence theories. Bacteria are so smart and they communicate. The have the ability to do nothing or become pathogenic and attack. The can persist regardless of how much antibiotics you take. If you took 6 or 8 or 10 grams of antibiotics a day it won't matter. Antibiotics at some point are useful but at a certain point, it's pretty much diminishing returns. You aren't gaining anything by upping the dose.

I know how you feel but I just wouldn't destroy my body needlessly.
Posted 9/19/2014 7:10 PM (GMT 0)
Louise -  Some bacteria in a population go metabolically inactive and they are often called 'persistors'.  They're sole purpose is to survive.  But they can be killed again when they become metabolically active.  Generally these persistors are also much less aggressive, less virulent, and less disease causing than their more aggressive peers.  Also I don't think bacteria become resistant when using combination therapies.  If you are attacking them in 3 different ways, they are not likely to develop resistance.  Just like viruses don't develop resistance.

It states use 3000-6000 mg daily of amoxicillin right in the 2014 ILADs guidelines, I just read it right now.  So LLMDs state this, and it's mentioned right in the ILADs guidelines.  Amoxicillin is a pretty safe antibiotic to use in my opinion, and that's why these high doses are tolerated.  It's not hard on the body.  

I think I'm doing a good job personally.  I have no yeast on my tongue at all anymore, I eliminated all sugars/gluten/dairy/alcohol/caffeine and most all carbs out of my diet.  I'm on a total paleo diet which consists of just vegetables and chicken.  I supplement all the necessary probiotics and take my sachromyces boullardii daily.  I chew on Probiotic Gum to keep my oral microflora healthy.  I have perfect stools that don't even require any toilet paper lol.  I slept like a baby last night.  I reduced my supplements down to just ashwagandha, curcumin, multi vitamin, and genuine health daily detox.   I drink lots of water and lemon water.  I am doing monthly colonics now.  But I still think there is more that I can do. 

I think to win the battle against these infections you have to be relentless and persistant.  It's like running a marathon race you can't give up.  My approach has been working and I've made sure I have all the resources to do so.  I know of several people that have healed completely, no relapses for years, and they took the 'be relentless approach'. 

I was just wondering if anybody had any other suggestions for idea I could use to come on top of Lyme disease and towards my goal of becoming 100% healed?  So far I got my symptoms down to the lowest they have ever been with some residual damage symptoms that are even clearing up.     

Post Edited (LymePickle) : 9/19/2014 1:17:48 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 9/19/2014 7:28 PM (GMT 0)
what are you on now?
Maybe you should "stay the course"?? seems to be working for you.
or switch solely to herbals.

What does Dr. C. say? Didn't you recently have an appt? or is it coming up? I would be interested in what he says.

I'm just waiting now for my phone appt. with him
Posted 9/19/2014 7:49 PM (GMT 0)
Girlie... I have my appointment with him next Friday...

I think the best thing to do at this time will be to continue what I am doing and track symptoms.

I will recommend rifampin as I think that would be the next best treatment for me to ensure bartonella and anaplasma gets sufficiently treated.

Who knows? Maybe he will recommend something else?
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