I am not off the hook just yet! Grrrrr - need some advice please!

Ok so I am not freaking out here. I am just more angry than anything else. This is week five off bactrim and week three off zithromax. Two days before I stopped the bactrim I had herxed in the sense that I was twitching all over like crazy. I was alarmed but my dr and I agreed to continue on the plan so I stopped the bactrim anyway. Not much happened after that. Once I stopped the zithromax I had major yeast and cystitis issues which I attributed to candida. The yeast and cystitis have resovled. But then just about four weeks after my last herx I started herxing again. Or was it just an increase in symptoms? How can I herx if I am not on antibiotics? Yes I am on herbs but I haven't changed anything. I did go in for magnet therapy but it wasn't until a week later that I started with the pinchy skin and sweating. Also what has really raised a red flag is my increased muscle soreness and slight weakness. I still feel strong and energized but something is obviously still lingering. My husband keeps insisting that its my body adjusting without the antibiotics. But I think he saying that bc its what he wants to believe. I have been on antibiotics for seven months. I really want to call it quits and go on an herbal protocol. I was clinically diagnosed with lyme and bart. What would you guys suspect is happening and suggest? I am waiting to hear from my llmd today but would appreciate some insight. I read about the buhner herb plan. Any thoughts? Thanks!

It sounds like you haven't been real aggressive fighting Co's. You say you have Bart, but I see that you have not taken either Rifampin or Levaquin (The go too Rx by most LLMDs). Without fighting co's, lyme will take much longer to control.

A four week herx cycle is common for an on-going Lyme infection. I bet there are still some die-off that take place even without ABX in your system. Also if symptoms flare soon after stopping ABX look more closely at co's.

Chapelle ... Sorry to hear your frustration! But that's what we're here for.

Do you think the lingering symptoms are Lyme or Bartonella?

Those symptoms you just mentioned sound like Lyme to me.

Also if you suspect it is Bartonella... I highly recommend you try the Buhner Bartonella/Mycoplasma protocol as this has worked miraculously for my Bartonella symptoms.

But... Lyme is still persistant. Even for me! What a sneaky sneaky germ.

Chapelle,

I never tried Al-complex or A-bart. But have tried a bunch of Buhner's core protocol items for Bart/Barbs etc. Many are used across all Lyme and Co's treatment protocols like Cat's Claw, Japanese knotweed, Sida Acuta, etc) If you try them make sure thay they are not also A-babs formulars so you don't double dose unknowingly. For me they weren't as effective.

My most effective Bart protocol was during my second time on Rifampin last fall, and took it with mino and plaquenil. It was a pretty tough first two months but got me out of the woods so to speak. I can understand your resistance, but the way I look at it after almost five years on ABX... "what do I have to loose".

BTW: In 30 days I'll give Levaquin a try for the first time. My LLMD and I a pulling out the big guns before I hang it up and settle for 85% is a good as it gets. I either got a strong strain of Bart, a BLO, the Fry bug or something they haven't named yet that's holding me back.

Bart does replicate quicker than the Babs 7 and 14 day cycle, but I could never see a pattern.

Brian Rosner' latest book hits on the last 20% of healing. ABX, Herbal, and supplemental treatment needs to be rotated frequently in the later stage of treatment, and he uses the peeling the onion analogy often when he sais just because an ABX (or alternative treatment ) didn't work in past doesn't mean it won't help when tried later under different treatment timing.

I wouldn't worry about stopping Zith and Bactrim and developing resistance. Those should be fine for future use. It's constant start and stopping of Rif that is warned against.
I've rotated thru most all ABX out there at one time or another. Only one I'll never touch again is Augmentin, which many folks are fine with.

Chapelle... My personal belief and thought is that resistance doesn't occur very often with these infections. They are all relatively slow growing germs. Bartonella also takes time to replicate as it has to build its large flagellas. When you reduce the number of replications the bacteria has you also reduce the chance of resistance in that bacterias. The only resistance known is bartonella has become resistant to rifampin in some patients. That is the only resistance I know of. I think resistance to protein inhibitors like azithromycin is pretty rare.

Also bart does have cycles too. Rather than 4 week cycles like lyme, it cycles every 7-10 days. Foot pain is definitely bart! I got that too with my bartonella relapse.

I think the azithromycin and Bactrim will still work. But you may end up with similar results that you had last time? My LLMD gave me a scare saying if it relapsed it means you have to start from the beginning again! I then decided to take the herbs the Buhner protocol knocked bartonella out fast. Maybe give it a shot again? I am finding I need to keep trying new things to make any progress.

Now I have to figure out what to do about the lingering lyme symptoms. I have been simply pulsing abx to keep them under control.

tickbite - thank you so much for your response, it actually calmed me down when I read it yesterday!! good luck on trying levaquin, I am just so afraid of the quinolones bc of the side effect potential. interesting how you can't handle augmentin - how come??

lymepickle - very interesting. yes, I thought of that, going back on the same regimen wouldn't make much sense. i probably would remain at a standstill if i were to do that. i was just thinking ahead, and was even considering doxy and zithro again, since i don't have to worry about the sun much anymore.

however, as for what traveler said, i think that makes the most sense at this point. i am no longer severely sick, i have been functioning 100% - this is the first week in months that i would say i took a slight step down. My LLMD called me last night, and this is what she said -

the magnetic therapy i had three weeks ago is what she believes is causing the herx. i did herx a few days after i had it done, but didn't expect to continue to herx. she said that many of her patients actually herx a few weeks out from the day of the therapy. So the plan is to do as much detoxing as i can, and she told me to avoid exercise until i get thru this. she said not to worry, and that i am not going backwards, and that she will get me where i need to be. she is amazing, and i hope she is right!!!!

wow, I could see that happening. ok. yes, I know its a combo of amoxicillin and clavulanate. I am able to tolerate it fine, but I am allergic to cephalasporins. everyone is different!

thanks traveler - yes, I am scheduled to go in at least two more times for the magnetic therapy. I will surely start a new thread about it when I understand it better and witness the results. fingers crossed! yes, I am drinking lemon water as we speak =)

btw, traveler, I don't think you read my update on my kids - I posted it a week or two ago - I had their blood tested for lyme dna at a pa lab ($150 per child) - not sure how accurate it is, but they all remain symptom free and it came back negative. I am super happy!