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My LLMD does not like banderol or samento

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Posted 12/1/2014 9:26 PM (GMT 0)
My LLMD told me not to take banderol or samento. She said that they cause the bugs to go into cyst form.

I'm not sure where she gets this information, and I did not ask as I don't take either of those anymore anyway.
Posted 12/1/2014 9:34 PM (GMT 0)
That doesn't make any sense to me at all.

First, Samento is TOA free Cat's Claw, and almost all natural practitioners use Cat's Claw to treat Lyme.

Secondly, when I used Samento and Banderol last winter I got a lot better, until I came down with really bad diarrhea.

Marie LS is using Samento and Banderol, if you want to ask her about her experience.

I would definitely not use the entire Cowden protocol, but I think those two are really good options.

Do you like or trust her otherwise?

Would she be ok with the Buhner protocol?

Margaret
Posted 12/1/2014 10:00 PM (GMT 0)
I know! I thought it was odd. But I don't take them anyway.

My LLMD is really good. She really knows her stuff and trains in Germany several times a year.
Posted 12/1/2014 10:03 PM (GMT 0)
Sounds like she either has some knowledge we don't, or - and more likely, it's outdated information. Maybe you can ask her why on your next visit?
Posted 12/1/2014 10:40 PM (GMT 0)
Hi,

If you like her, that's what counts.

Maybe she just doesn't like Cowden? The reasoning is odd, but see how you do with her, and if you start to progress, and feel better, then you're ok.

Perhaps she doesn't use alternative meds?

Margaret
Posted 12/1/2014 10:47 PM (GMT 0)
I know KAtebirch has the same LLMD. She has an appt in 2 weeks, maybe she can ask. Now I'm curious!

I didn't ask further questions because I already had quite the extensive list. Lol.
Posted 12/2/2014 1:09 AM (GMT 0)
hmmm- that is strange! I know one of the german herbals they use has cat's claw in it. I asked the dr about the cowden once and he said it is good but complicated. Something like that- yes, I know what you mean for the money they charge for those appointments you don't want to chat too long.
Utahgal- so now traveler told me about chronic tonic and I am thinking of looking into it- I will ask the llmd about it too. I do like our llmd but since I relapsed off the abx I am a little less thinking they know everything and a little more wanting to try other avenues too. I know they use the herbals with the abx, but lately it seems to me the doses they use of herbals are quite low- and the costs of those herbals are really high for the doses they use, y'know?
Posted 12/2/2014 12:11 PM (GMT 0)
I know! They do charge a ton for the herbs! And for the probiotics! I found the probiotics on amazon for much cheaper!

KB- I worry that maybe you still need more abx. Maybe a different kind. You just haven't found the right combo to completely kill the bugs.
Posted 12/2/2014 1:05 PM (GMT 0)
I have never heard that before.

I'm interested in learning more.
Posted 12/2/2014 1:37 PM (GMT 0)
yeah, I am willing to do more abx to a point. I am still on them now. I just feel in my instinct that I am gonna need the stronger herbs ( like the buhner or chronic tonic) to really get me over to staying well. I feel that I could be on abx for a while longer but won't be sure things would stay away after I stop. I feel right now that the herbals my llmd gave me are just not strong enough. So my plan is to stay on the abx for a while, and to add in the chronic tonic or buhner ( still researching that) and stay on that for like a year or more. And of course I will discuss this all with my doctor when I see him in 10 days.

Utahgal- I know, I just got the probiotics this time on amazon too- and they are much cheaper! The last time I went to the llmd for just the appointment and a few supplements- not even that many, I paid $600. Ugh! And now my husband is going too ( thankfully he is fine, not symptomatic at all) and it is just so expensive! We need to restock on one of the herbals and it is like $75 a bottle- and since we both use it we go through it quickly, and as I said the doses seems light to me. I am sort of figuring out that buhner and maybe some of the others do pretty high doses of the herbals. I wonder why my llmd doesn't. I had ben putting all my faith in doing just what my llmd said- because I really like him and think he really knows his stuff ( I am very cautious about trusting doctors but I like this one). But recently I feel like I have to also take the power back into my own hands to amend what he says with my own ideas ( such as different herbals).

Post Edited (Katebirch) : 12/2/2014 6:40:50 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 12/2/2014 4:06 PM (GMT 0)
My herbalist actually had Samento tested and it did not have any cats claw in it. They contacted the company to ask why/what was in it if not cats claw and they just responded saying it was a proprietary blend. Not throwing them under the bus or anything but she doesn't use it since she can't verify what is actually in it - there may be other reasons why drs don't use it and it doesn't necessarily mean they are uninformed.
Posted 12/2/2014 4:17 PM (GMT 0)
devil I always check the cost of my supplements that I buy from my doc against what I would pay online!! If they don't like it, I ask if they are willing to pay for it for me! With hubby's disability being our only income, we have to be careful!

Kate, it's good that you are checking up on things like this!! It may be why some heal and others don't! Just different dosages and strengths of the herbals. The abx dosages are compared all the time, but few look into the herbal aspect like this - I say good for you!!
Posted 12/2/2014 5:18 PM (GMT 0)
A trial of samento and banderol was ineffective for our daughter who slowly relapsed on the combination. However, I think these herbs are used for lyme and her presenting symptoms were all bartonella.
Posted 12/2/2014 5:21 PM (GMT 0)
so weird if samento is not cat's claw- I had thought it was!
Posted 12/4/2014 6:10 AM (GMT 0)
Well, not that I like the man personally, but even a heavily revised Cowden protocol gave me a nasty herx. I do think Samento is Cat's Claw.

Of all the herbal protocols, Cowden's is the only one that was tested in a research study at University of New Haven, by Dr. Eva Sapi. Many LLMDs, including some prominent ones, use Samento and Banderol for that reason.

The best I've ever felt was on Samento, Banderol, and Burbur, but then I quit bc I got nasty diarrhea.

I think anyone who did the whole Cowden protocol would be, well, how do I say this nicely? Would be spending a ton of money, and taking way too many herbs!!

But I do think the Samento and Banderol (and Burbur) have some merit. I think Cowden's Samento uses a different form of Cat's Claw than the standard one, and my guess is that it probably is some kind of blend, maybe of different types of Samento. btw, the scientific name for Cat's Claw is Samento; Cowden didn't make up the name. Other companies use that name as well.

My LLMD said that Burbur does work for herxing.

Having said all this, I think it's a shame that no other protocol or herbs have been tested much (if at all) in research studies.

Margaret
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