need advice- what would you do? re: eleuthro

I apologize that I am asking this on its own thread and on my other thread at the bottom of the other one, but I thought the question might get buried in the other thread.

In addition to my new houttuynia protocol for bartonella, I am doing a pre mixed herbal tea and herbal tonic from misty meadows. So far I really love it and hope to have good success with it.

the only problem is I am not responding well to the eleuthro ( Siberian ginseng) in it. I am already too anxious and I think it makes me too speedy. Anxiety is more of a problem for me than fatigue right now.

I like my pre mixed tea otherwise because it is very easy to use. I just put a spoonful in my tea pot and make my tea for the day. I think all the other herbs in it work well with me.

The problem is the herb shop I get it from is closed for the next two weeks. Having spoken to them I know they will make me a special batch of it without the eleuthro.

But I have to wait 2 and a 1/2 weeks for that. In the mean time I am taking 4 cups of this a day, plus 2 tablespoons of the tonic.

so my options are: Either I keep taking it and wait 2 and 1/2 weeks to stop the eleuthro,
or I purchase all the other herbs sepreately and make my own mixture for the next two weeks. I am not sure if I can get really small bagsof any of these herbs o it may be a lot of money to spend on 12 or so herbs.

In general I like the premixed better because the herbalist mixes it up at the right proportions, I feel that the herbs they use are good quality, and it is manageable in my already overwhelmed ill state to make a pre mixed tea.

But if the eleuthro is making me more speedy and jumpy this is not good!

So what would you do? Would you buy the bulk tea herbs loose and make your own, or just wait it out with the eleuthro continuing for 2+ more weeks?

As for the tonic , I also like that a lot- and I am not sure that is even an option to have without the eleuthro. But I think perhaps if it was out of the tea it would reduce the am't enough to make it manageable.

If I did mix my own tea I would have to ask traveler if she knows the right proportions.

What would you do? please advise. Thank you

the more I look into it and think about it the more I think it is the eleuthro. ginseng making me speedy. I feel speedy right now- it is quite awful, and I am even on valium! I am going to stop this and get the bulk herbs. I just decided for sure, sigh, why is this all so hard!!!
I was so happy with my protocol finally but for this one thing,

Just my suggestion - why don't you continue with low doses of houttuynia because you seem to be finding new clarity (and thus an improvement) with it. Use the one or the other (CT or DT) but not both until MistyMeadows opens again after Christmas and ask them how you should approach the eleuthro problem.

My understanding was that the DT was to be taken in case of new tick bites, but that the CT was to be taken during infection. Wouldn't taking both be overdoing it?

I may be wrong, it has been a while since I read the site.

still processing . . . .

Rowing mom- you said you had bad reactions to Siberian ginseng/eleuthro too. heart palpitations. Can you please tell me if it gave you that SPEEDY feeling?

Also- for anyone- what about houttuynia- did it give anyone that speedy feeling?

While I try to figure out my next step I want to try to see which of these may be causing that speedy feeling.

Both my tea and tonic have the eleuthro :(

I just don't know if I got it from the eluthro today because enough finally built up in my system- because I did't get it until today- actually, some yesterday but it passed and I had a good night.

Or if it is the houttuynia.

Sad too, because up until this I was feeling GREAT about my protocol and like I was finally in the right protocol and moving to healing. so sad to have this new obstacle.

Thanks astorman. I really appreciate everyone's help in this. Sucha great forum here.

I hadb't even considered the eleuthro having a bad effect until last night/today. Now after researching it it seems a lot of people have the same overstimulated "speedy" reaction to it. Why they would put it in a formula is beyond me-- seems like it is good for fatigue but should be an on the side thing, not in the general lyme formula.

so I think I will continue the houttuynia today- with some trepidation.
But I may just not take any of the misty meadows today--- hopefully my bulk herbs will come soon---
I don't feel great about stopping the lyme herbs though- argh, such a dilemma.
And it is al more money- I ahev spent so much money ( as have all of you) trying to get better! But like each llmd appointment I spend 300 dollars plus 300 in random supplemets-- so I figure at this point a little mre on herbs to actually do this herbal treatment and maybe heal- is worth it and to avoid the ginseng horrible reactions. sigh.

Just another obstacle- but I had been doing so well!! Well, hopefully once I get on the right teas without the ginseng and keep on the houttuynia I will resume getting well.

My gram scale arrived just now--- so I guess I am going to measure out 1.5 grams of houttuynia for 3 sups of water and do that for a while.

Thanks, Girlie! I am glad I identified the eleuthro as the cause of the speedy feeling! Because at least this is something that is pretty easy to change.

After that episode I am too scared to ingest anymore of it-! So until I get my new herbs ( which should be soon!) I am still on the houttuynia ( took another cup and did fine with it- may be because I am already on 2 valiums today ). Then I also took a tincture I have with knotweed and cats claw ( it also has sarsaparilla in it which I know is a mild stimulant but I think not as strong as eleuthro), and my zhang allicin.
It will have to tide me over for a day or two.

THe rest of my herbs should come in a day or two- except the knotweed which I had to get from somewhere else which will come in 4 days.

Then I can resume the 4 cups of tea a day without the Siberian ginseng.
And then I will re evaluate!

As you all know this is all a process of trial and error.

I am just second guessing myself now!

I know I am reacting to either the houttuynia ( bartonella herx) or the eleuthro.
But right at this moment- even though I took TWO valium earlier today ( which is very rare for me- usually one does the job), I am sitting here with an undercurrent of anxiety.
So now I am thinking this is the bartonella herx. this is fine- it is not horrendous but usually with this much valium I don't feel it.
so anyway now I am trying to differentiate between the speedy scary possibly eleuthro effect and the anxiety bartonella effect---.

It is confusing because there are so many factors and elements ! The stopping of the abx, the adding of the houttuynia, and the other 14 herbs I am on.

But the other 14 ( or so) herbs I was on for over 2 weeks and up to full dosage before I started the houttuynia 3 or so days ago. And other than the first day or two of herxing on them, I wasn't feeling a bad reaction to them.

So--- unravelling this mystery of how to heal---
Either
-The eleuthro built up enough in my body at 2+ weeks to finally cause a speedy reaction

or
-It is a herx from the houttuynia

or
-The speedy is different from the head anxiety and one is from one and one is form the other

or
-none of the herbs are working and this is all symptoms from being off the abx! ( which I doubt, and hope not but had to put it out there!)

ugh

I was feeling so good on that protocol. Argh this is such a roller coaster.

Oh well- in time I will try it without the eleuthro and then I will know, I just have to be patient.

I just wish I could drink my cup of tea and take my tonic lke I have been, just in case what I am feeling is actually the returning of symptoms since I am not on the full protocol today!

yeah, I just don't think eleuthero is a good fit for me! I am gonna try to do the same protocol minus the eleuthero- just may take a bit to sort it out.

astroman- if you are reading this- are you herxing form the houttunia at all?

X-mas vacation will be a good time to test herxing levels. With my luck, the herxing will start when I return to work next week LOL!