Not much progress :-(. Herbs? Tinidazole?

OK, so I've been on a herbal protocol, based on Buhner, for around 8 weeks now. Cats claw, resveratrol, Eleuthero, andrographis, coriolus, Hericium . . . to name just a few. I'm taking 40 tablets a day, which in itself is getting me down. Thing is though, I don't feel I'm making any real progress on it :-(. When should I start seeing any improvement? Prior to this, I've been on over 12 months of abx (one month IV, 3 months cefuroxime, 3 months doxycycline, 3 months clarithromycin, 3 months clarithromycin plus amoxicillin, pulsed with tinidazole). I felt I was possibly making some progress with the tinidazole - gave me headaches & made me tired & groggy, which it hoped might be a herx?? But I was only on it for three months, then 8 weeks ago I came off abx and went on the herbs. Just not sure they're doing anything . . . :-(. Am I being too impatient? Or should I be asking to go back on the tinidazole?? I'd be really grateful for your thoughts . . .

Sorry you're not making progress for the past two months.

Question: You mentioned Resveratrol - are you taking Japanese Knotweed? I think Resveratrol comes from grapes as well, but the one you should be taking is Japanese Knotweed not just the Resveratrol from the source. Hoping someone with more knowledge will chime in.

Do you have a LL Dr in the UK? Or are they non- existent there?

Thanks so much for your replies cd, girlie, rowingmum. Girlie, I will go & check my resveratrol bottle for ingredients - it is just the one prescribed to me by my doc so I'm hoping it's the right thing :-/. I will def check though - thanks. Rowingmum, I do wonder about co infections - all my major symptoms are neurological, so I do wonder if that indicates Bart? I think I tested borderline for it, although I know that doesn't necessarily mean much. I am being treated by a private clinic in the uk that specialises in lyme (as well as other strange things the NHS has given up on, eg allergies, chronic fatigue, environmental illnesses), and they do seem to know what they're talking about, but as I've probably mentioned before, we have literally NO options here . . . I wish I could shop around for the best LLMD, but there literally aren't any :-(. So this is my only route for now, unfortunately. When I asked about Bart, they said that it would have been treated by what I've already taken . . . forgot to say I have been taking artesunate 4 times daily since the start of my treatment 15 months ago. Is that for Bart?? My LLMD is so expensive that I don't feel that I can have any kind of in depth conversation with her; I'm running out of money :-( . . . honestly, the situation here is absolutely dire . . . that's one of the reasons this forum is such a godsend!

Thanks so much girlie - I def think I will, as a few people have mentioned Bart, and since all my symptoms are neuro, I suspect it too :-/

Here in an article written on the LymeMD blog.....


Am I Lyme Literate?
I have been accused of not being Lyme literate by a lay person who has her own web site and blog. She feels I am misleading people. I don't know if it is appropriate to defend myself; but like most physicians, my ego pushes my in this direction. She claims that Lyme is transmitted by breast feeding. This makes no sense to me and I have seen no scientific evidence to support this. Lyme can not be found in body fluids and it not transmitted by the gastrointestinal tract. Infants who have Lyme probably got it through the placenta. There is science to support this. She claims that samento is a crucial part of Lyme treatment. Many patients who come to me have used this extensively. It may have modest benefits but has not cured anyone. I have no problems with patients using this as an adjunct, but to date there is no science to support its use. Mr. Buhner has written a beautiful book about Lyme. The science of Lyme infections is well described and documented. He offers herbal therapies, but no science to back up the use of these therapies. It has been reported that the Cowden herbal protocol helps Lyme patients. This is a difficult and expensive therapy. Again, it lacks scientific support. The Top Ten Treatments by Rosner is filled with mistakes and misinformation. The Marshal protocol refutes the importance of treating non cell wall, intact spirochetes. Marshal is a PhD, not a MD. His treatment was initially used for sarcoidosis not Lyme. He claims only a 30% success rate with Lyme. Plaquenil is not an anti-cyst drug as stated. The vitamin C and salt therapy is questionable and has helped very few patients. The same can be said of the rife machine. Dr. Burrascano is without question one of the best Lyme docs. he recommends a plethora of supplements. Apparently he cured himself without taking these supplements and used high doses of Ceftin. I can't list all the supplements here but they include: alpha lipoic acid, co-enzyme Q10, Carnitine, magnesium, multivitamins, methyl-cyocobalamin(which is an expensive form of vitamin B12) omega-3 supplements and a host of other supplements. If you take all these things you end up taking a medicine chest full of supplements. There is no scientific evidence to support any of things. I, my patients and family members have recovered without these things. To the best of my knowledge, Dr. Stricker and Dr. Jemsek do use these things and they are arguably the best Lyme docs in the country. I see many patients who have had their fillings removed; been tested for every parasite in the book; had saliva tests for cortisol levels; been treated with a plethora of herbs and alternative therapies, who ultimately come to me because they have not gotten better. I disagree that stage three Lyme is not curable. Many stage 3 Lyme patients have been cured or at least put into long term remission. Chronic Lyme is still outside the mainstream box. I use therapies which have some proven benefit or least are based on clear logical principals encompassed both in the art and science of medicine. Some patient have been treated with what I consider dangerous therapy like intravenous hydrogen peroxide and colloidal silver. These treatments have been given by the best known "LLMDs". These same doctors who once used the Marshal protocol now load patients up with vitamin D not understanding the immunology of this compex hormone. I see patients who have not gotten better with other docs and I am willing to take on very difficult patients. I treat patients with severe Lyme and all its known complications. I do not claim to be the best Lyme doctor. I welcome positive feedback. My intention is to write a patent's guide to Lyme from a physicians perspective. I like questions because they help me in this regard. Patients should be aware that there are as many opinions as their are LLMDs. Lyme patients need to become Lyme literate themselves and seek a variety of opinions and opinions. I have no agenda in writing this blog. I find it therapeutic and I hope it helps some patients. During an office visit I do have time to cover the vast the details of the science and controversies of Lyme disease. I hope this forum helps with the educational process. I also welcome feedback from patients which I find very helpful.


This LLMD has dedicated his life to Lyme. He sees many patients who have had no help from herbals. Obviously the patients who herbals work for, aren't going to see him. So.....herbals work for some people and they don't work for others. Same goes with abx. The best you can do is try and see if they help. Herbals do nothing for me except drain my wallet. But for others, they really seem to help!

Utah- is this the same llmd you posted the other thread with the blog? So what does he do to treat patients? I like what he is saying, but I didn't see if he said what he has found actually works? The million dollar question? Does he say?

Post Edited (Katebirch) : 1/14/2015 8:18:07 AM (GMT-7)

Well, honestly, all doc's push their own protocol, even the LymeMD blog doc - and I like his thinking on a lot of things!!

But he says some things in that portion quoted that is refutable. Science does back up several things he claims it doesn't. And the supplements become more necessary the longer you have gone without treatment for these infections because your body gets robbed of them. You don't have to use them, but it takes a lot longer to get your body functioning to a good level with just what a person gets through their diet - no matter how good it is.

And I agree with Utahgal - the bottom line is that not all protocols work for each person - each of us needs something at least slightly different from the next, even if we have the exact same symptoms.

But, from what I have seen on this forum and in other places is that for *most* it's a combination of things that help most. If on abx, using herbals and supplements work better - again this is for most, but not all. Some, like Utahgal do just fine without any herbals or supplements.

I actually read his blogs frequently and enjoy his unique insight. And I agree, he's not worried about being politically correct!!