Best Bartonella Protocols

Girlie- I had no problems w/ Rifampin. In fact, Rifampin, Doxy, Tindamax & Coartem were my first main protocol -7 months after acute infection. Prior to this I was only on 200 mg/day of Doxy.
(Just a little background, read if you like:I was a late dx w/ severe neuro lyme. Ruined in hospitals by both Cipro & Bactrim put in my IV and then they exchanged those for steroids & I got even worse; now that I looked at my hospital records yesterday -very likely floxed & Bactrim shut down my entire gastrointestinal system & I got c diff; still no lyme dx so, I was fighting a severe lyme infection & being poisoned at the same time)
That was an intense protocol!
Plus, I started Buhner herbals at this time, too.
The yeast was not to be held back, so after about two months, I stopped the Tindamax. TAKING ALL OF THAT AND BUHNER HERBS & I'M STILL SICK- just crazy.
My protocol has changed a few times since then & what a relief to be off of all of those oral abx.

My protocol was always stronger w/ Rifampin. My doc had me on 2, 500 mg Tindamax daily & holy heck the head herxes were killer at first, really really bad. You know, the herxes from Tindamax were as painful as the encephalitis that I had in the hospital.

Lymepic- What is the 'cured twice' protocol?

Nonetheless, I now have iv rocephin & my doc wants to add a protocol back in for Bartonella.
This brings me to the forum recently as I really need other's experiences as to their most effective bart protocol.

Part of me wants to try Buhner's strong bart herbs first to see what I get...could it be enough?
If not, I could always go back to oral abxs...happy, happy, joy, joy

Post Edited (Usedtogarden) : 2/15/2015 9:00:09 AM (GMT-7)

Girlie said...
bettjoes - Did you pay for the protocol? I'm curious, but not sure if I want to pay - not knowing what it is...

Girlie, Bettjoes is someone that we have had trouble with on this forum (and he's caused lots of other issues on other forums) for years now. They have a protocol that they developed without any doctors or researchers help and is bent on promoting it everywhere. Please disregard those posts.

Does anyone have experience w/ Stephania ?
It is an herb listed in healing lyme, and it is said to be able to penetrate the eye tissue, which is a place where some abx can't get into.
I used it once and I believed it helped, but eventually cut it out to save money (I did run this by my ND, first) but, I am now thinking that I should have kept it in.
UPDATE: Just emailed my ND, she said Jap Knot penetrates and some others in the protocols also penetrate the eye tissue:)

Post Edited (Usedtogarden) : 2/15/2015 9:03:38 AM (GMT-7)

I was on all Buhner's herbals for lyme, bart & babs with abx
(-andrographis) That was my strongest protocol! I believe I came the furthest on that prior to IV Rocephin. IV rocephin has really eliminated a lot of lyme symptoms & I am so much more functional since the iv.
- sayyadina

Post Edited (Usedtogarden) : 2/12/2015 11:26:33 AM (GMT-7)

Is it safe to assume that everyone knows my Bart protocol? Chronic Tonic combined with Houttuynia. I can explain as much as needed, I just don't want to wear everyone out with it!! LOL!

Isn't is just lovely to be allergic to milk thistle!! I'm allergic to rag weed, which makes me very sensitive to milk thistle - it actually made my liver hurt! I just worked to keep my liver flushed most of the time instead.

Well, the Chronic Tonic is a combination of 11 different herbs for Lyme infections, and something in that combination of herbs helped the Houttuynia for Bartonella work outstandingly for me - I'm just not sure which herb(s) were actually responsible.

Here is a link to a thread that I started about the Chronic Tonic, as I used it: www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3244272

And a link to a thread about Houttuynia and how I used it: www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2887463

I had to buy all my herbs from either the Practitioner that I used during my first healing, or online. When I was buying them online for myself, I used Plum Flower herbs Houttuynia - which can be purchased through several sites - even Amazon!! LOL!

For the 11 herbs in the Chronic Tonic, I had to do some shopping around as not everyone has all the herbs needed all the time - but I used Kalyx/nuherbs (www.kalyx.com/) and Monterey Bay Spice company (www.herbco.com/) and then harvested my own oregano. While it's a bit of money laid out at first to get all the herbs, it lasts for several months depending on exactly how much of each you buy. I bought one pound packages of each herb (except for oregano and thyme) and it lasted me the entire 5 months that I was in treatment this last time - plus I have enough of the other herbs left over that if I ever need it again, I only have to order a couple of herbs.

All herbs that I purchased were cut/dried - and I was careful to avoid powders so that they all steeped at the same rate.

I'll answer any questions that I can to help you decide if this is right for you or not!!

Cat's claw seems to be central in many of the herbal protocols. This is what I've found, hopefully it will be of some help to you:
"Some researchers believe that Samento may be as much as 1,000 times more effective than Cat’s Claw. One difference between Samento and Cat’s Claw is that Cat’s Claw is an immune system stimulant and Samento is an immune system modulator. Also, Samento can be used to treat all autoimmune disorders.
In May 2005, pharmacological studies were conducted in laboratory rodents at the University of Guayaquil, Ecuador. The anti-inflammatory effect study showed that Nutramedix Samento extract inhibits inflammation by 83.8%."
www.nutramedix.ec/ns/samento

In this link, Buhner is speaking to someone who has experienced " Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome following courses of cipro and levaquin". The patient states: "...After researching it, I saw that Dr. Lee Cowden claims that its antimicrobial effects are due to the quinovic acid glycosides on which quinolone antibiotics are based. I told my naturopath and called Nutramedix. Both assured me that there are no quinolones in Samento and there won’t be any similar reactions. Reviewing the chemical structures of both leads me to believe there are no similarities, I can’t be sure they won’t have similar reactions. I already started using the samento and have been feeling much worse. Is this just a Herxheimer reaction or am I potentially worsening my FTS symtoms by taking the samento?"

Buhner responds: "There are no similarities, however, some people don’t respond well to samento. I personally believe that TOA-free cat’s claw does create more side effects than the whole herb does and I have seen this before. Just stop using it."

Then to someone else who is writing in that muscle testing has shown that they should not use Samento or Cat's Claw, Buhner states: "Try stephania and teasel root tinctures as replacements."

I hope this helps instead of just muddying the waters!!

Do you mean Rifampin, not rocephin for bart tx?

Trav- thanks for adding alts to cats claw :)

Traveler, you mention in an older post to start slow on Red Root, yet you didn't elaborate as to why
Please do so. Thank you.

Love- Rocephin is a powerful lyme drug. I am not aware of that being used for Bartonella. Is your son herxing from the added rocephin?

Post Edited (Usedtogarden) : 2/15/2015 10:33:58 AM (GMT-7)

Usedtogarden said...
Traveler, you mention in an older post to start slow on Red Root, yet you didn't elaborate as to whay.
Please do so. Thank you.

I believe we should start off on all things slowly, even detoxing as the body can be in a precarious situation at times with keeping the toxins to a level where they body isn't overwhelmed with them. As you know, a severe herx isn't something that anyone wants!

The lymph nodes are the "first line" of catching toxins, the red root releases them back into the blood stream to be carried to the liver (I believe, but maybe it's the kidneys or both?), so by using a large dose right away, you could be releasing larger amounts of toxins into the blood stream.

And each time I got my dose a little too high while trying to get the swelling back under control, my lymph nodes actually hurt! It was a very sharp pain, like a knife stabbing pain. Definitely got my attention!!


Hang in there, LMC Mom! Hopefully his herxing won't be so 'dramatic' this time around and the abx really kick some bugs butt!!

By decreasing rouleaux across endothelial tissue (blood vessel lining and lining of the heart), red root also increases circulation. This can allow antimicrobials to reach areas they had been previously unable to penetrate.

I actually believe that when we are really sick with these infections (when we've had them for a while), that the body can be 'just barely hanging on' in terms of if we upset the balance that it's trying to maintain the herx is going to come. This is why just about anything can create a herx, simply because it's upset the "balance" that the body is trying to maintain - yet the body is in such a state that any variances can throw it into a tail spin - or at least cause a herx.

I've been in that position a lot of times now (), and have felt like that each time. I've herxed over every change during the first time I healed, the second time around, I was much, much more aware of the careful balance that my body was trying to maintain and "honored" it, but introducing every single thing that I did slowly and carefully - even certain dietary changes.

So when we unwittingly make several changes (adding things in or taking them out), we can kind of set ourselves up for a herx - like what happened to you. Too many changes for your body to keep a careful balance to keep things going.

Everyone- I am beginning to feel like it's ALL the LYME, especially since most don't docs don't lab test for bart.
What if it is just lyme doing all of this & needing all of these combos of abx to be defeated?
Has anyone else ever thought of that, too?
Either way, it doesn't change our tx, does it?
We still have to take all the abx, nonetheless.

When I herx, I am in misery over the same sx that I had during my acute lyme infection- exact same.
So, now I am thinking: it HAS to be the lyme if it is the exact same sx;
Just that anti parasitics, intracellular, cell wall drugs, etc. all hit lyme b/c it is so stealth.
I have found myself saying/thinking, 'oh, that's my bartonella..., oh, that's my babesia acting up, again,' when it could ALL be lyme.

Has anyone else ever considered this?

Also, I really appreciate everyone's tx responses!

Post Edited (Usedtogarden) : 2/16/2015 1:53:25 PM (GMT-7)