Lyme and bones

Hi All,
I'm searching for information on Lyme and bones - particularly how it affects the bones, particularly the bones of the jaw.

I'm losing bone in my mouth - both upper and lower jaw and I need to find out how likely it is that it's still the Lyme attacking, or if Lyme has started something else that is eating away at the bone in my jaw/face.

I had to have my teeth removed at a young age due to the effects of Lyme, and have had full dentures for some time now (over 20 yrs) - but when I went in to have a new set made, they told me that I didn't have enough bone in my lower jaw left to just put a new denture in. I have to have bone grafts first. I've had 3 dentists (those that specialize in dentures and in reconstructive surgery of the mouth) tell me this so far, so I believe them. They told me that I would wake up with a broken jaw one day if I don't - and that it would require a lot more work to be able to eat again if I let it go that far.

But - I have noticed that as this progresses, a small area (on the upper and lower jaw) will swell - the bone, not the gums - and then when the swelling goes down, the bone seems dead or something as it just slowly "falls away". I don't have any particular pain once the swelling is gone, and I don't feel the bone breaking off or anything like that. It just slowly disappears after the swelling leaves.

So I thought I'd come to the largest and best group of people that research all of this stuff and ask that if you have seen something on this, or if you come across some information - I would be so very happy if you would share it with me!!

So, again, I'm looking for information on Lyme and how it affects the bones of the mouth and/or information on Lyme leading to other disorders that could cause this in the mouth.

Thank you all!! You are the bestest - hands down!

Yes, the bone loss continues - which is why I'm trying to eliminate Lyme as the reason. I don't know if it "triggered" something else in my body to make this happen or what - but I don't have any symptoms of Lyme, so I have to assume I'm healed - 34 days and counting!!! Even had a couple of weeks of stress and once I slept enough (still battling adrenal & thyroid issues), I'm fine again!!

On the bone grafts - I learned about all of this last year - then I was diagnosed with severe adrenal fatigue & Hypothyroidism and then got Lyme and was told that my adrenals weren't strong enough for me to have any kind of surgery other than emergency surgery - so I put it off. So I had decided that since I don't have enough bone in my mouth for them to harvest, and I surely don't need 2 surgeries (still healing my adrenals, but am losing bone and don't want to wait that long), that I'll use donor bone. I have a choice of what kind of bone I wish to use and I'm still torn about which one.

From my research, bone grafts seem to take pretty well now - but of course I'm very concerned about this if my bone loss is still ongoing and will be discussing this with the docs I will be using.


Thanks for your questions, Girlie. It helps me to be more sure of my decisions and why.

When you have all teeth pulled, or if they fall out and you get dentures, you can have deterioration and bone loss, but that is usually a slow progression.

Most elderly that have dentures are able to maintain enough bone to hold their dentures in throughout their life.

But, it seems that you have something more aggressive happening, Traveler. I agree, you want the bone loss to slow down, or stop before you have the grafts...so that you don't lose the new bone, too.

Do you take CoQ10? I don't know if your bone loss started with unhealthy gums or not. But, with me that's what started it all. I had cleanings, scalings every 3 months for several years, and it would not stop...then I had the surgery on my gums (all 4 quads) - which cut back the gums, so the deep pockets were gone. Continued with cleanings every 3 months, and then the bleeding gums, and deep pockets started up again.
Then, I read about CoQ10 - that it was good for the gums. i started taking it and about a year later, my gums stopped bleeding, and the continued for approximately 5 years or so. I was able to have my hygenist appointments further apart.
Now with Lyme disease, I have missed appointments, so am worried about them.

CoQ10 is not a cheap supplement, but it seemed to work for me.

Found it

http://www.lyme-symptoms.com/CoInfectionsBartonellas.html

Scroll down past the red area, chronic Bartanella infect, shows jaw bone loss, poor teeth, sudden pain in each tooth or entire jaw bone.

I read where about 50% of domestic cats have bart, so if you have ever been around them, got scratched or bit, then you've probably been exposed. Plus who knows with the tick bites.

I guess it could be just normal bone loss but sounds like it's happening fast. Hope you get some answers and get it resolved.

Hmmmm, I wonder why KM's posts are gone? Makes me doubt.

Anyway, Girlie, I'm sorry. I got started with a tid bit of information and was like a dog with a bone and ignored what else was going on around me!!! Sorry!!

Yes, I'm taking CoQ10 - I have been for over 2 years.

My gums have been so very healthy that all the dentists that I have seen have remarked that they were surprised that my teeth were in such bad shape even though my gums were super healthy looking. They all also said that with that level of tooth decay, it's usually tied to gum disease - which I've never had. So of course, my thoughts always turn to Lyme then.

I don't know if its the same as those that took bisphosphonates, but I've never taken any of that. I actually had the beginning stages of osteoporosis (osteopenia), but was able to reverse it - my doctor was sure surprised!! LOL! But I remember reading/hearing about that too - shameful that the drug those people took to strengthen their bones actually made them worse.


Revive
Thank you for your efforts!!! Well, dang. I fit all of those things. I've had cats around me for most of my life - and of course, I've also done a lot of my own "doctoring" on most of them - so yes, lots of scratches and bites. So strange that not even one doctor in the 30 years that I've been the most sick has never even asked me if I owned or was around cats. Yet they all screamed to be careful around cats (some even said to get rid of them) when I was pregnant.

My Bart was pretty bad during my first round of infections - I wonder if "Bart lives on" in the bones even after you have successfully treated it and have no symptoms????

So my questions have changed to- is it Bart? and can Bart live on in the bones after successful treatments? Ugh. I was supposed to be done with this!!!

Thank you Revive! I need to find information that backs this up now, as I never rely on just one source for my information.

I've been seeing a biological dentist this past year after some teeth issues cropped up with my crappy health. They are big into oil pulling for all mouth health including bone loss. Have you tried it? I'm not sure if it helps but it can't hurt. Our mouth is a huge source of bacteria and biofilm so it's no wonder that our teeth and bones suffer from lyme and co.

IHL said...
This topic is WAY out of my league. But just a thought. Isn't teasel supposed to draw infections out of bones? Is it only joints? Your jaw has joints or...something hahahaha! Maybe if you took something that drew infections out of your bones and went back on the tea for a while it would help? NO IDEA!

Thank you IHL - your input means a lot to me. Thank you. I've used teasel as part of my treatment both times, so if it was going to pull it out, it should have by now I would think. I'm trying to not put this off too much longer though as I was told over a year ago that I needed to get these bone grafts soon.

Simela1 said...
Sorry you are dealing with this, T :(

Dr. K talks about lack of manganese and zinc that causes bone loss in the jaw. He said lyme can cause KPU but also if one has already KPU, it can get worse. He sent samples and those people not only didn't have enough zinc, but had NONE! Jaw is the area of the body that is suppossed to be the richest in zinc. So suppliments don't help unless in massive quantities, bec with this condition you can pee out all your zinc. So if you take 1ooo mg of zinc and pee out 3000mg, the supplimentation doesn't do enough.

I guess it wouldn't hurt to do a urine test to check your zinc and manganese level? That's my suggestion. I don't know anything else about this except what I've learned from Dr. K. Vit. C difficiency can also cause problems with teeth but I don't remember if is bone or gum related. I hope you can figure it out!

Good idea, Simela! Thank you! Even my local doc can do a simple urine test!! LOL! It's a place to start!

I'm so so sorry, Girlie!! Even though we have opposite problems I can still sympathize greatly!!