Chronic Tonic as used by Trav - PART II

Healrom remember that buhner protocol is a method not a prescription. He gives a lot of information on how to tailor a personal routine and of course tools for extending to herbs not mentioned in his book. In fact chronic tonic is largely inspired by his work as it appears. So in either case make sure you're not throwing the baby out with the bathwater when something doesn't work entirely. You say it stabilizes your disease but doesn't heal you. A good indication that you probably need something more instead of less. Best of luck with the chronic tonic. Please do report back

Hello everybody,

Yes Pscilociraptor, I know that the Buhner protocol can be modified. But I used his internet protocol, and I prefered to stick to it in what he tells to take.


Traveler, finally I decided to try the chronic tonic first.
Do you know if it's normal that the infusion is very very bitter?!
I'm drinking it for the first time now, and the taste is very hardcore.

I have only put half the weight in herbs to begin (6,5 grams).

The quantity of water that you use, 4 cup, is equate to 32 floz ?
For me it's approx 1 liter, I'm french and we use the metric system.

Do you add water in your infusion when you drink it?

Lol, I understand what you mean by not diluting the thing. There are two schools : the ones that prefers a thing less bad but for a longer period of time, and the ones that prefers a thing more bad but less of it

But I continue to think that the taste of mine is not normal. I think that because my herbs are powdered, it's more strong faster. I will try to infuse it less longer, maybe 10 minutes.

Maybe because you have the roots not powdered, what infuse more for you is oregano and thyme that are small leafs, comparated to big wood roots. But in mine the roots are in powder so it infuses quickly, and it becomes ultra bitter.
I already drank andrographis powder in water and it was less bitter than that.

For your herx 3 weeks after the beginning of the treatment it's strange. Maybe your bacteria are more in biofilms and not in free form in your body. And when a biofilm breaks you begin to have herxs.

For me, when I begin a treatment the herxs are the strongests, and after they diminishes. Then if I make a break in the treatment when I start again, I have again herxs, even if the treatment no longer gived me herx before. (it means that bacteria are still there in biofilms, and that they come out again when the treatment is not here)

Post Edited (Healrom) : 12/11/2016 5:41:44 PM (GMT-7)

Hello,

Sorry I didn't receive neither a mail for your post. I just see it now.

I have tried the chronic tonic for a while.
It did give me some herxs, definitely. Even for me, that have herxheimer reactions usually fast, it took some time before the real herxs came. Maybe 3/4 days.
Maybe some of the plants have to accumulate inside the body before they become bactericidal.

But I don't seem to improve.

In fact I don't know what to think about the chronic tonic. I think it has clearly some effects at least.
I looked at my blood with the microscope, during the chronic tonic, and I have seen spirochetes. But it's complicated, because I had taken a product that maybe destroyed biofilms. So without this product, I almost didn't see spirochetes.

But anyway, I think that I had better improvements (but slight) with buhner protocol. So maybe I will come back to it. I will maybe try to improve it, by making pulses with it for exemple, and maybe take antibiofilms products. And if it doesn't work neither, maybe come back to chronic tonic. A complicated story....

Ps : I have get more or less accustomed to the taste of the tonic. Even if it stays harsh ^^ I have made somebody else taste it, and the person told me : it's too strong!! lol

Post Edited (Healrom) : 2/18/2017 5:32:48 PM (GMT-7)

No, nothing that I tried have worked.
Except maybe the Buhner protocol. But with some limitations.

Yes, I think too that I have something else, but what, it's complicated to do the right tests, and that they work...

Now, i'm drinking the powdered herbs of the buhner protocol mixed in water, no capsules. It's even worse than the chronic tonic ^^

What I want to do with the pulses, is to let the bacteria exit the biofilms. Because, what I have felt with the buhner protocol is that after a while, I wasn't having herxs anymore. And then after a few days of interrupt, when I went back on the treatment, I had strong herx. And it was after months of treatment.
So I strongly think that when you take a treatment, the bacteria keep hidden in biofilms. And exits when you stop it.

I also see that with the microscope.

And also, I think that there is less inertia for the Buhner protocol to work. Maybe it just needs a few hours to work, A day or two maximum.

I will try and see. For now, I had big herxheimer all the week. I think also that the B.P. is more effective with the real powder of japanese knotweed than with the concentrated resveratrol pills.

Yes, I know that even without herxs the product we take can continue to works.
But for me it's pretty neat, I was taking the Buhner protocol since maybe two months, and I didn't had herx anymore, or barely noticeables.
Then I stopped for a few days, and then I had violents herxs when I resumed the treatment.

So for me it's a clear sign that I'm full of biofilms. Also my blood was almost clear of spirochetes during the treatment.

What biofilm buster gived you this reaction? What should be the best ones for you?
I think I will take it when the herxs with the buhner protocol diminishes again.
I'm thinking about NAC, and EDTA to try. (I already took NAC but it didn't do me much thing, but I wasn't under a good treatment when I tried)

Also serapeptase don't seems so effective to me.

Ps : what I mean, is that I think, that a some point the treatment loses it's efficiency. And if you don't hit hard the bacteria, they will multiply again after that. And all is to begin at the start again...

Also I was wondering another thing : do you use a special water to make you chronic tonic infusions? Maybe if your water is acidic, the components of the plants are better extracted than for other waters. And, sorry for the question , are you lightweight? because given that the dosages are the same, maybe for somebody lighter than another, it will work better.

Post Edited (Healrom) : 3/2/2017 9:15:37 PM (GMT-7)

LOL! No, I can't call myself a lightweight, but I did have to slowly build up to full doses (and still do) because I'm full of bacteria and don't detox well, so I herx easily and pretty hard whenever I start treatments. But, this doesn't mean the dose that worked for me will work for anyone else - that's the uniqueness of our bodies and the infections - some just need more help than others to heal these infections.

And it's never a problem with asking questions - this is a virtual world and we can't see each other to gain an understanding of many things!

While I do understand what you are saying with the bacteria and biofilms, I just wanted to warn you to be careful. Serious herxing can lead to life threatening situations, and no one wants to have to go through that.

The herbs don't loose their effectiveness after a while, but they wont' reach into the biofilms well enough to keep the process going if the bacteria is hiding out in biofilms. What you are experiencing is just that you give the bacteria an opportunity to "build in numbers" again while you go without treatment, then when you restart, you are "behind in killing them off" and so you will get a stronger reaction again. You will "kill off" more bacteria by staying steady with herbs in your treatments.

What you may be dealing with is a plateau in healing because you are in a position where you need to start treating for other infections you may have. It's actually rare for Lyme to be the only infection passed at the time of the bite - they pass many bacterial, viral and protozoan infections. We would have to go over your symptoms (and test results if you have them) to gain understanding of which infection may be stopping you from healing from your Lyme infection. For me it was Bart that was slowing down my healing from Lyme - but it can be a number of other infections.

I have well water that I use for all things. From what I understand, it's more alkaline as we have a lot of limestone in the area, and it also has a high mineral content as well as a slightly higher PH:

"Water hardness can be most simply described as the mineral levels in the water. Hard water has a high dissolved mineral content. Soft water has very little. The most common mineral in water is calcium; however, other minerals may also be present. Most people's tap water is either slightly hard or soft depending on where it comes from. Well water from areas which have a lot of limestone (calcium) is often hard. Water that comes from lakes and rainwater is often devoid of minerals, making it soft."
www.liveaquaria.com/PIC/article.cfm?aid=60

There are a handful of biofilm busters that are being used by members on here. I used cistus incanus tea (it's sometimes known as Rock Rose tea) and never made it up to 'full doses' of 3 cups a day before having to stop not only the cistus tea, but treatments as well in order to get the herxing back under control - so no matter which biofilm buster you are using, please go slowly and watch for those herxes. The biofilm busters will release all kinds of bacteria and viruses back into your body that were hiding out in those biofilms.

Ive ordered my Lactoferrin and Xylitol - just waiting for them (ETA 2 weeks!!!)

Trying to be patient.

Lol, i'm not patient either ^^

The good thing is that I have still herx. So I have time before taking it, the time for it to arrive.

It's not more fast for you in USA?
I order on iherb, for France, it usually takes 2/3 weeks also. Coming form America.

Psilociraptor said...
Interesting because Sapi also said in a talk that only Stevia and Melittin impacted borrelia biofilms out of all the compounds she tried despite other biofilms being treatable with numerous things. Another study showed that components of chinese skullcap were very effective. Traveler what biofilm buster did you use? I probably won't use one until the end of my treatment but I'm curious what could be that effective

i think trav used cistus..
Thats it ,im adding stevia amd bee venom to everything...wanna see her data on venom?

healrom. Ozonated water, ? Can you elaborate ,share some of your microscopy with us?... i looked at some blood right after someone had mah ozone and it was pretty clean ..we found spirochetes inside rbcs

Post Edited (bluelyme) : 3/4/2017 2:21:44 PM (GMT-7)

bluelyme said...

healrom. Ozonated water, ? Can you elaborate ,share some of your microscopy with us?... i looked at some blood right after someone had mah ozone and it was pretty clean ..we found spirochetes inside rbcs

Ozonated water, is water in which you bubbles ozone through it during 5 to 10 minutes, to make it ozonated.
The ozone is retained for some minutes in the water.

What is mah ozone?

So you have a microscope too?
You can see my videos here :
/www.youtube.com/user/MrRomzor1/videos?shelf_id=0&sort=dd&view=0

Yes ...i have been trying rife experments too..i love your doug coil video with the 727 hz on the slide ..any success finding your number ?

major auto hematherapy (mah) is like 100ml of blood with heparin then they put ozone in it and run it back in through a germicidal light .

one member uses a germicidal light in a fiber optic cable and they have one in the catheder called uvlrx .

tooty and i are making progress with beevenom and abx and rife .
join us on lymenet microscopy thread .."dude from kansas" is making his own bsk cultures in 3 weeks or less

I never made it up to the full dose (3 cups a day) of the cistus tea - and it was less than one week at the 2 cups a day dose that I had to stop it and then a week later, when I couldn't stop the herx from getting stronger, I finally stopped treatment and went to solely detoxing to calm the herxing back down. I will definitely be better prepared the next time I try this, but I will be trying it again before deciding that it's not right for me - but at lower doses too.