Herbal advice please

LOL! Well, since you asked so nicely.... Giggle!

As with pharma abx, you don't want to raise the dose of or start something new too close together. I prefer to have a full week in between so that I know that I'm stable on the herb or dose before changing up anything else.

So you can continue on with the Stephiana root if you wish.

If you bought the 3 herbs so that they are separate, pick one to start on. You can use the information on Buhners site under the drop down menu for symptoms or herbs to determine which one to start with according to what symptom(s) you wish to try to treat for first - or just pick one.

On a week that you have not been herxing, start off with one drop in the am - and continue on the one drop daily for 4 days to a week, depending on how you are doing with it. If you get a reaction, do not increase your dosage until you have the herxing under control.

If you get no reactions, or once you get the herxing under control, add in one drop in the evening. Continue with this dose schedule for 4 days to 1 week. If you start to herx, do not raise your dosage until you have the herxing under control.

If you get no reactions or once you get the herxing under control, add in one drop in the middle of the day so that you are now taking 3 drops a day - am, noon-ish, and in the evenings. Continue this dose schedule for 4 days to 1 week. If you start to herx, do not raise your dosage until you have the herxing under control. You can also back down on the number of drops you are taking at any time if the herxing becomes too much. This will give you a chance to help lower the toxin load that your body is dealing with.

Now, keep adding one drop at a time like this - starting with 2 drops in the am, 1 drop midday and 1 drop in the evening - then increase to 2 drops in the am, 2 drops at midday and 1 drop in the evening - until you get to a point where you need to stop and hold that dosage for a while, everyone has a different point in which this will occur depending on the bacterial load - actually Babesia is a parasite, but well, you know.

When you get the herxing under control is when you will add in the next herb in the same manner, starting off with just one drop a day and slowly building up.

The one thing you don't want to do is to overload your body so much with toxins that it struggles much. So be sure you are detoxing as much as you can to keep up with the toxins.

Thanks so much for your post, sayyadina!

Your approach makes a LOT of sense.

Glad you were OK with that sida dose. That's what I was going to start with since Buhner recommends as such.

I thought the Stephania was supportive and started at 5 drops TID. I increased by 5 drops TID each day so you can figure out how fast I got to the full dose.

I couldn't figure out why I was herxing but now I know lol

It was a relief to read that you stay on the current doses of what you're already taking.

I need to figure a few things out with my Lyme herbs. Cowden rotates several antimicrobials and I'm not so sure rotating is a good idea when titrating other herbs. Any thoughts on that?

And, since I don't think I herxed on Houttunyia, should I bother taking it again? (if I continue following Cowden, I'll now be taking Enula/Samento BID and Houttuynia BID for the next two weeks......I just finished two weeks of Mora/Samento BID and Coumanda BID).

I really appreciate all the help with this stuff!

Thanks, candeleinthewind.

Yeah...Cowden seems to be the only protocol that rotates herbs - I'm not so sure what I think about that at this point.

The killer is that Cowden only slowly increases the doses of Banderol and Samento....the instructions for the other antimicrobials indicate starting at full doses but I knew to slowly increase those thanks to this forum.

Now that I'm rotating the antimicrobials every two weeks, Cowden is calling for full doses....I guess he figures the bacterial load has been reduced by the 2 or so months spent on the various combinations.

I wasn't sure about taking all the Lyme herbs at the same time but, after reading the signatures of other members, I realize people do it all the time ;)

Thanks for all the input!

Yes, I realized that Buhner recommends continuous dosing. I shied away from Buhner at first because I liked the idea of Cowden addressing the co's.

My LLMD never thought I had a co...but, one time early in treatment, I had a hot flash in his office and he mentioned babesia. We discussed what I'd been experiencing otherwise and he left things at Lyme.

Still, I know co's are common and I'd been wondering if the hot flashes I had with Enula meant a possible babesia infection.

Maybe my healing was delayed by this choice but I'm choosing to move forward ;)

I will say this much: rotating herbs is cheaper lol

I do like the idea of continuous treatment and this is where I'm confused right now.

Samento is something I've taken throughout the Cowden protocol so there's no trouble continuing with that.

Here's a list of what I've taken already (and have already completed the initial, longer treatment time and have already completed two-week rotations of all of them):

Banderol
Mora
Coumanda
Enula
Houttuynia

As of right now, I'm "supposed" to be doing the Enula/Samento and Houttuynia for two weeks...and I'm one day into that.

Buhner suggests Cat's Claw, JK and Eleuthero for Lyme. He lists Stephania as an alternate to JK.

I'm LOVING Stephania (my PNS symptoms have improved to a new level - yay!),

And, he lists Rhodiola as an alternate to Elethero...I've been taking Rhodiola for ages and increased my dose after getting Lyme.

All of that said, do you think I'd be OK just taking Samento, Stephania and Rhodiola to treat my Lyme (and hit a possible babesia infection with the Stephania)?

I'm thinking of starting sida acuta but, again, not sure if I should take any other herbs either from Cowden or Buhner.

I don't think I herxed on Houttuynia and could resume that....not sure if I should and when.

Can someone please help ?

Sorry for all the questions....my LLMD doesn't know that much about herbs and gave me instructions to follow one of the 3 most common protocols. I'm a bit skeered lol

Post Edited (cd3764) : 7/28/2015 4:04:52 PM (GMT-6)

I started with Artemisinin, which I have personally found very helpful. To avoid resistance, it should be taken with other Babesia meds. It has helped with my severe fatigue and exhaustion.

Fairly recently, I ordered the individual CSA tinctures. I started with one at a time so that I knew how I would react to each one. I started with around 5 drops of Cryptolepis (and worked my way up), which kind of aggravated my hypoglycemia. It does not seem like that is a common problem though from what I could determine. Then, I added the Sida and, lastly, the Alchronea. I'm not taking them right now for a few reasons. I would suggest doing one at a time so you know what it helps and (possibly) stirs up.

Based on everything I have learned, I think Babesia needs to be hit from various directions with a muli-herb approach. Personally, I would use more than just Sephania (have not tried that). Enula is supposed to be helpful from what I have read. Buhner says that the herbs work better when they are used together. Also, it is good to know that you might notice a reaction to one herb and not another.

Good luck!

Thanks so much Girlie and Lymie Girl!!

The fact that Cryptolepis is good for all infections helps a lot. I can start that first and it will help with my Lyme and possibly babs.

I've decided to continue with Samento to help with Lyme and Enula with babs since I'm already up to the full Cowden doses with those.

Without a doubt, I'm sticking with Stephania because it is noticeably helping.....all the other herbs I've tried thus far caused me to herx but brought me back to baseline.

The info about babesia needing a multi-herb approach is OK for me since I've taken quite a few different ones already. I want to complete that last 10% of healing.

Thanks again to both of you for such great information and support!