Q about doctors having to treat if tick bite UPDATE

Question: Do doctors have to treat for Lyme Disease is there was a bite + symptoms even though Lyme Disease test came back neg?

11 year old daughter had a bite 5 mon ago. and for the last 3 mon has been having different symptoms we can't find a cause for. She had a Lyme Disease test done in Sept that was neg. I'm taking her back to fam doc tomorrow, because I'm worried about Lyme Disease as her cause and want three weeks of doxy to be safe.

My fam doc is a believer of the lyme disease tests if they are neg you don't have it.

symptoms: chest pains, muscle spasms in hand and thumb, dizziness, light headed off balance feeling, nauseas.

shes getting a ultrasound of her heart to be sure that is not the cause, the cardiologist thinks it will come back fine. had a holter monitor done and a ecg that was normal. all blood tests normal. I'm concerned and would like to treat for the tick bite she had. But my doctor is going to think im a nut when I go back in there with her tomorrow. Does she have to give us a round of antibiotics? The muscle spasms are new in her hand she doesn't know about.

UPDATE: Update from my daughters doctor appointment today. The doctor prescribed her 2 weeks of doxy in case it is lyme disease causing her symptoms from the recent tick bite and 3 months of symptoms. I was hoping for at least 3 weeks but this is what I got. The guidelines are 2-4 weeks so this prescription is on the lower end of the scale. And I don't fully trust the guidelines as is. But I'm hoping for my daughter and our family's sake, that if it is Lyme making her sick that this two weeks will help her.

I will start her detoxing and a healthy diet of fresh fruits + veggies as well as drinking a lot of water.

I also found out today that her holter monitor did come back with some abnormalities, it showed that her heart picked up in speed during chest pains. However the cardiologist we saw last week didn't say that and said he was happy with her holter monitor but is having her do a ultrasound of her heart on Dec 17. It could still be something heart related and not Lyme... but it could very well be Lyme, to.

Please keep her in your thoughts and that she is feeling better soon!

Post Edited (JessicaMommy) : 11/27/2015 12:51:33 PM (GMT-7)

Hi,

If you manage to get the Doc to prescribe her the doxy for 3 weeks then you will know, if she does have herxes then it's certainly lyme, does not matter what tests say... however 3 weeks will certainly not cure it after so many months left untreated. But i think you should find a LLMD (Lyme Literate MD), most general practitioners are clueless about this disease. Mine had one single case in 33 years of practice. Now how good can you be as a GP with such a portfolio ? Not very good...

I have had 3 negative Lyme ELISA tests, several doctors telling me to be sure it's not lyme. Then i got positive results from a private lab, then i sent my blood abroad to a German lab and got another set of positive results. But i never trusted my diagnosis fully until i started taking antibiotics and saw what a herx looks like... Please send your daughter's blood to a private lab that has more sensitive tests, IgeneX is probably the best one in US.

To be honest the symptoms you have listed match perfectly the lyme symptoms. I was misdiagnosed for 2+ years with asthma because of the chest pain. I mean maybe you could think of something else if you did not see the tick bite 5 months ago (for example i haven't seen mine), but isn't that a huge coincidence, that she starts having muscle spasms and chest pains after a tick bite ? There are not so many things that can cause muscle spasms and chest pain, so the list is quite narrow and if you take into account the tick bite, i'd say she almost certainly has lyme... I find it unbelievable that your doc thinks she does not have lyme, given you have found the tick, she has never been treated with abx/herbs and she now has muscle spasms. Come on... If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, what could it be....

However it is really important to check her general health first, not only to be sure to exclude anything else but also because the lyme treatment itself is long term and quite brutal, so you want to ensure everything is fine, ultrasound, EKG, some extensive blood tests - including thyroid tests, electrolytes, etc.

Keep us posted.

Post Edited (mpostelnicu) : 11/26/2015 6:26:31 AM (GMT-7)

We honestly have no extra money to send her blood off to a private lab. With me not working and only my husband working, with four kids there is no extra money... plus what I'm spending on my lyme stuff a month. I could stop my lyme treatment to save for it though.

I dunno what to do. Part of me wants to cancel appointment for tomorrow and wait another month to do the ultrasound in three weeks and then give it a week for those results. If all is fine with that then venture the lyme disease treatment with my doctor. I don't want to keep waiting though when she doesn't feel well. I think my doctor may be more understanding about the lyme though once the ultrasound is ruled out - we have ruled everything else out, I think.

Also, if I managed to get her antibiotics tomorrow, and then she took them, the ultrasound might not show what it should if it is lyme causing her chest pains ( or lyme cardiac, inflammation of the heart?) because the antibiotics could mask that. If she has the ultrasound that shows inflammation, along with her other symptoms and tick bite - maybe they would choose a different route of treatment like IV antibiotics and also come to a diagnoses of lyme from the tick bite. If she has the oral antibiotics that I push for tomorrow, then has the ultrasound in 3 weeks, maybe the oral antibiotics would take the inflammation away only to show nothing wrong on ultrasound but then it comes back two months later and they never found lyme/something wrong with her heart at ultrasound. Get what I'm saying? Maybe best to hold off for her ultrasound of heart in 3 weeks instead of me pushing for the antibiotics for lyme.

I'm seriously so stressed out. I feel so unwell. I stop taking my Samento & Banderol yesterday as my symptoms are so much - probably from the stress and possibly toxin die off. I'm taking a few day break and trying to feel better before starting it again. Increase detox and trying not to stress etc.

My face is breaking out so much, I look horrible. Breaking out from excess stress and maybe toxin die off. I'm 27 and all of my 20s have been ruined from Lyme. I haven't been able to live a normal life and can't even work the last year. My husband feels unwell, now my daughter... I'm just so over everything.. life is so hard for me. I'm not feeling sorry for myself, I'm just feeling very very overwhelmed and don't understand how things have to be so confusing for me. Doctors don't even know whats wrong with me, my husband and my daughter. My LLND says Lyme for me because of my positive test and symptoms, but why are my other two family member like this. I'm in a bad place and scared for my daughter, she is so young, I don't want her to feel like this for 1+ years.

Sorry, I just go on and on... no one else to talk to. My husband has heard it all and knows. My MIL has heard it all and doesn't know what to say.... been to my doctor so many times. Think I will cancel her appointment I made yesterday for tomorrow, and wait it out another month for other test to be done because of what I stated above. I feel like I could collapse from all this overwhelmed feeling of everything.

Another questions: If I go to my doctor tomorrow to ask for a prescription for Lyme for her, would a few weeks of doxy even have a chance of working for her? It is a new infection if it is Lyme. My friends daughter had Lyme a few years ago and was sick for two months before they figured it out. She only did the recommended course of antibiotics (4 weeks) and it 'cured' her. She started feeling better in a just a few days. So my daughter has a shot?

I don't know enough about mold to know whether or not the readings in your house could pose a problem. I know Mister Mike on here had no visible mold in his house yet he suffered horribly with mold issues that impeded his healing.

In regards to your friend's daughter and how her experience might relate to yours: no one can predict anyone's outcome. Not enough research has been done to confirm why some people with Lyme don't develop symptoms....and why it's so hard for others to clear the infections. The general thought is that it has to do with the health of the immune system at the time of the bite.

My DIL got bit by a nymph deer tick last year, developed a huge rash and severe, flu-like symptoms. Because she was breastfeeding and wanted to continue, her doctor prescribed amoxicillin. I don't know the dose and I'm thinking it was for only 2-3 wks. She was feeling better within days of starting the amox and is still doing well now.

I believe her strong immune response (high fever, EM rash) might be the reason why it appears she beat Lyme. We can only pray.

There just isn't enough information out there to know exactly what should be done in regards to treatment. The ILADS guidelines are based upon research/clinical outcomes.

No matter what, it makes complete sense to me to treat past complete resolution of symptoms.

I don't know about you but, I had a sinus infection one time that didn't clear after the first round of abx. My doctor told me that sinus infections can be stubborn and prescribed another round. That IS how things are done with most infections.

How about taking one step at a time and either start her on 1 drop of Samento....or push for that doxy?

If she herxes, then you'll know what the next step needs to be.

And, it certainly wouldn't hurt for you to have her start some sort of detox protocol now...

CD- have you done any research on Burbur and Pinella and safety in kids? I think it would probably be fine. That would be good to add to her detox protocol if I can get the doxy tomorrow.

I grew up with these infections, so my answer is yes, treat your daughter. Believe me, the risk of growing up with these infections simply because we have tests that aren't more than 50% accurate even in the best of circumstances, isn't worth it. It robs you of many things in your life. I was infected at age 7 and didn't get diagnosed until I was 44, didn't find effective treatments until I was 47. It's no way to live a life. If your daughter has had a tick bite and is now showing symptoms, that's more accurate than any test we have right now.

You also have the option of treating with Buhner's protocol. It's safe for children - as a matter of fact, in this Q & A, he's answering about a 12 yr old child: buhnerhealinglyme.com/basics/kids-dosages/

Best of luck, JessicaMommy! Let us know what happens!!

It doesn't take long for a tick to infect, engorged or not. You had a positive for LD & now your daughter seems to be showing some classic symptoms, as well. "If it quacks like a duck..." Your motherly instincts are telling you something here. If your doc is not persuaded to give her abx, the immediate care idea is a good one.

If it is LD, your daughter has youth on her side & you are catching this early enough to impact healing. With that said, I'm going to include a link here about Dr Neil Spector, who had misdiagnosed LD, eventually effecting his heart.
youmustseethisvideo.com/lyme-disease-nc-now-unc-tv/

Post Edited (happyjo) : 11/26/2015 8:28:23 AM (GMT-7)

Thanks happyjo. My husband is taking her to the appointment tomorrow and telling her about her new symptom of muscle spasms and reminding her of the tick bite and that we WANT to treat her for Lyme Disease as she is showing the symptoms. As well as all blood test etc check out to be ok, it points to Lyme. I hope we get somewhere. Keep your fingers crossed for us.

Yes, my gut totally says Lyme. I would love to get her on a course of doxy and see how she feels.

Good strategy having your husband point the direction. It is tough enough when you & your offspring are healthy~~so understandably overwhelming when you & yours not well! Your love shines through & you will get through this. ((hugs!))

(I changed the link, btw, thinking the vid might be better for you & hubby to watch if you've not seen).

Jessicamommy - so sorry to hear this!

Yes, the Canadian tests are free for us...but not very good, unfortunately.

I think you need to do whatever you can to get her treated.

"My LLND actually told me a month ago, to go to a walk in clinic and say she was bit by a tick and having symptoms and lie and say she has a sore knee or shoulder and exaggerate it. then she said "I know this is so bad for me to say and I probably shouldn't be saying it but if that is what it takes for them to listen"."

If someone in my family got a tick bite - that's exactly what i would do. I am not a 'liar'...but I would do what I needed to - to get them treated.

She has youth on her side.
She also has a wonderful mother and father who will help her through this.

Hang in there....