"Cyst busters? We had it wrong all along."

hi lymepickle - as I said I am very skeptical of this article. I am still not convinced that Diflucan can actually kill lyme spirochetes, and let's say it does - you don't even know the dose. they say claritin can be used for lyme, but the dose needed to be effective is way higher than 10mg, which leaves the question does the benefit outweigh the risk? probably not! There is not enough info here, as the article states, "What about Diflucan? penetrates well into the brain and kills persisters. Role in Lyme to be determined."

- until I see more evidence I will just say that I believe diflucan can possibly be used as a cyst buster, or an anti persister, but that is far as I will take my thoughts for now!

certain herbs can do what flagyl does - why take the risk of a cancer causing substance?

i do know that teasel root (spironil) pulls lyme out of their hiding places like the joints, and puts the spirochetes into the bloodstream for the antibiotics to kill - that's what worked for me. so it isn't a cyst buster, but works in conjunction with antibiotics - in the way astroman described flagyl

Girlie... This article points something important out. We don't have to think of "cyst form" anymore. This is an old school thinking used by Lyme Literate Doctors that isn't really the case anymore. Moving forward the treatment resistant bacteria are persistors. The ones left over are round bodies , not really cysts. I think what happens is some of them die and some get kind of injured and they appear as round bodies. Who knows.

So you don't really even need any cyst busters at all.

I think you can just use the rifampin to finish off the last bacteria, so probably what you are doing with the minocycline/rifampin and now the biaxin/rifampin will finish off both the bart and the lyme. Dr. MR even classifies rifampin as his cyst buster... I asked him how do you know? He said 'mechanism of action, and that there have been people that used rifampin in combination with abx that got 100% well and never relapsed". Or maybe you can consider adding something like amoxicillin? Amoxicillin is another antibiotic that shows low MIC values against bartonella too... So maybe when it's in combo it will help?

I'm actually planning on having a Skype consult with Dr. M the Bartonella doc.

But LP - We don't know for sure yet about there not being cysts...do we? Do we just trust the latest article?

either way..I'm not going to do the Tinidazole...not for several months anyway.

So, should I still be taking serrapeptase for biofilms?

I was thinking of going back on mino again...and maybe pulsing biaxin? Or should I do just mino/rif for two months...and then back on rif/biaxin for a couple months after.

THE Dr. M? He does Skype apps?

Yes, I think I will...it's difficult - fitting it in without food...and remembering to do it.

Chapelle... I am exactly 95% well LOL! Yes I know I have been between 80-99% well for the past 18 months! Yes I made it to 99% with basically no symptoms on a cocktail of minocycline + Septra DS + clarithromycin. But then I stopped because I thought the Septra DS was making my kidneys ache... Which I still believe it does. After stopping the Bart came back, I should have kept going despite kidney aches... That was over a year ago now.

Anyways I shouldn't complain too much because I have been able to work and function living my life just fine these days. It would just be nice to be off the medications without the bartonella relapsing on me!

New Years is coming and happy New Years by the way... My New Years resolution is to beat bartonella.

I got the 4 bottles of sida Acuta, 4 bottles of houttuynia, lots of pure pharmaceutical grade l-arginine. And some other things like the proteolytic enzymes... Hmm maybe that is how you beat the Bart! The serrapeptase! Actually I hear time again and again proteolytic enzymes help big time with Bart treatment, and it isn't about dissolving biofilms, it's also about dissolving away plaques, and clots where bacteria can hide out. So that's another thing I will add in again. Otherwise I will likely end up with kidney failure, hearing loss, or something from all these abx and being on them so long.

Girlie said...
But LP - We don't know for sure yet about there not being cysts...do we? Do we just trust the latest article?

I wasn't asked, but I say no, we don't just jump at this first article that comes out with new info, but we shouldn't wait around using the 'old' info only either. Things are changing quickly at times for Lyme treatments at times, but I still think waiting for verification/confirmation is necessary.

I'm not disagreeing with anything said on this thread - including the blog post I posted about. I do however exercise great caution about running with the first thoughts on any 'new' thinking or item. We should wait until it's either proven or disproven in my way of thinking. This was the first time I had seen these thoughts, so I wanted to toss them out there because, if right, could change a whole lot of thinking on what we see/experience. And since it's us - the patients- who do a large amount of research and then request this or that from our doc's (many times long before the doc would have thought about it) then we are the ones that are the actual citizen scientists, aren't we?

Anyway, I think this is wonderful thought provoking things being said. We should keep an open mind, yet be cautious in just believing new information and running with it.

This study says tini is good..http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3132871/

bluelyme said...
This study says tini is good..http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3132871/

If you look at the date on that study, you will see it's from 2011, so while Tinidazole was a good abx to use then, there are advances being made and we are finding out that some abx are actually a lot better than the ones that were being used.

Chapelle said...
.I would assume that as in all other cases, two weeks is never enough to put lyme symptoms at bay, right? Just thinking out loud - does this make sense?

Two weeks is sometimes enough for some people if they start treatment immediately after the bite. There is no evidence showing that this is adequate.

Yet, we have the story of my DIL who was bitten by a nymph deer tick in May 2014....she developed a huge rash and pretty severe flu-like symptoms.

I encouraged her to go to the doctor but knew very little about Lyme - just the CDC stuff. She asked the doctor for an abx she could take while breastfeeding and was prescribed amoxicillin for 2 wks...3 tops.

She recovered quickly (no herxing - just felt better) and there are no signs of her revisiting these infections again. I worry about her, my granddaughter who was being breastfed at the time....and my grandson who was conceived just a few months after the bite.

Still, when my son (her husband) asks why I'm still struggling even though I started treatment earlier, I can only guess that her strong immune response took care of things.

The relapse rate is huge for people who were only treated for two weeks.

I was treated for 3 wks. with 100mg BID doxy and I started treatment the day after I pulled the tick out of my abdomen (not sure how long it was there - it was hidden inside a tiny pimple). I didn't develop a rash and had no symptoms.

There is no way no how that 2 wks. of doxy would be sufficient for someone who went untreated for any amount of time.