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How A Nuero Lymie Reacts To Houtynnia & Sida Acuta

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Posted 1/20/2016 5:34 AM (GMT 0)
I'm still inconclusive on the sida acuta.

But I feel from houtynnia I am getting a herx.

That's interesting because I'm mostly light nuero symptoms remaining for me.

I'm at a point where I need to find what's causing a herx so I can know what will work for my last I would say

"15%" percent of less of the lyme/coinfection I feel i have.

Now houtynnia is seeming like a good bet for me..both houtynnia and sida acuta...when I add these 2 I get what I feel like is a stronger herx.

I'm upping the dosage of my houtynnia and I know I will herx moree..yikes...it's something I feel is critical to my recovery because where I'm at and all herx's are light...i know if a bigger herx happens it really means something....

CHAMELEON HERB ALL THE WAY.
Posted 1/20/2016 5:51 AM (GMT 0)
Going to make an FRESH update for everyone..

I took triple houtynnia dosage abotu 10-15 minutes ago...head pulsing sensation is on about 5-10 minutes later.

Lot of head swooshing noises going on!

This is great! Of all things...the houtunyia is seemingly triggering a strong response.

We will see more in the days to come how bad the herx's will get...I'm hoping for a bigger herx..the bigger the better!
Posted 1/20/2016 6:00 AM (GMT 0)
pulsations with movement felt in lower left stomach.
Posted 1/20/2016 6:18 AM (GMT 0)
"We will see more in the days to come how bad the herx's will get...I'm hoping for a bigger herx..the bigger the better!"

Lymedriven - I want to caution you - extreme herxing can be debilitating... and even dangerous.

You don't need to herx like that to heal..it's not necessary to take triple dose of houttuynia.

Please make sure you detox regularly ....
Posted 1/20/2016 7:08 AM (GMT 0)
true...let me put it in perspective lol...even the triple dose is not a lot .... cuz my regular dose was minor.....so triple dose might seem a lot but it was just 3 capsules worth from my regular(1 capsule)


also...even my worst herx are light nowdays...easily handle able

i've been through a lot of healing already...i never real have a intense 'herx' anymore....not really...cept for the nuero side.

although im so close to healing...i do get pulsation body twiches...but nothing really stressful.

true..detox is important...mostly my symptoms are just the brain fog,...the sensisitivity to sound is coming down more and some others...

yea...detox is important.

thx for your concern.
Posted 1/20/2016 3:33 PM (GMT 0)
I hope you don't mind, Lymedriven, but I too much put up a warning here - even if you are taking "safe" levels of the herb, there is still quite a bit of danger here. This may or may not pertain to you, but I ask that you read this anyway - just to be sure you are aware of this.

I need to emphasize the danger in just raising the dose of herbs that a person is taking by that much suddenly. While you may do okay with it, it's still not good - why? Because, if the body is dealing with too many toxins, it won't be healing.

The worse the herx, the less healing will be going on. Herxes can be life threatening for some due to a cytokine cascade that can be started during a herx. This is why we always say to "go low and slow". It's a controlled herx that we look for, not something that we change abruptly to see how much our bodies can handle. In the 8 years that I have been here, I've known 3 people that have tried to push through a horrible herx and end up in the hospital because of it. We never know just how much more we can push before the body takes a turn for the worst and we end up needing emergency services to stay alive.

So, just how many mgs is in each pill? I was using dried Houttuynia leaf to make a medicinal tea and only used 3 grams daily. How would you say your dose compares? That way we won't worry about you quite so much. :-)


Also, Sida treats quite a few things. Do you have any of Buhner's books? I have his Herbal Abx book and was looking up Sida Acuta and was slightly surprised to see just how many things it treats - including Herpes, Mycobactrerium phlei, staph, strep as well as others. It's possible that you have one of these or Babesia as well if you are getting a reaction when using it.
Posted 1/20/2016 4:23 PM (GMT 0)
I just started my sister on Houttuynia yesterday--using Cowden's and going slow like the directions and everyone says. So far, I haven't seen any reaction. I think it's really hard to tell with my sister what's a herx and what's not. There's so much variability--sometimes we feel like we are going in the right direction and maybe seeing progress, and then things seem worse again. Her neuro symptoms are so severe--the vibrations and humming/buzzing/noise drive her crazy. I'm starting to worry that we're not going to get her out of this, though it's still early (we are only starting the 2nd week of the full Buhner core protocol, and have only recently added Stephania and yesterday Houttuynia). And I still don't understand whether it's Lyme, Bart or Babesia that's causing all of the neuro probs. I guess our next step is to figure out which of the LLMDs in NJ seem best for our needs. Maybe the herbal protocols aren't going to be enough for her. It just breaks my heart to watch her suffering so much every day.
Posted 1/20/2016 5:34 PM (GMT 0)
Laura - It is difficult for many of us to figure out what's a herx...for me - I always had daily flares - even prior to treatment. It got easier as treatment progressed.

It is normal to see progress...and then have it get worse again....it's not a straight line...it's ups and downs along the way.

Yes, 2 weeks is early on....try not to think of healing in terms of 'weeks', but maybe 'months'. That way you won't be disappointed.

What a wonderful support you are for your sister. She is so fortunate to have you by her side through this...guiding her treatment...
Posted 1/20/2016 5:40 PM (GMT 0)
Agreeing with Girlie on all points - especially the part about being a wonderful sister!!

Remember, if it's a herx, detoxing should bring down the severity of it within a few days once you have enough detoxing going on.
Posted 1/20/2016 6:14 PM (GMT 0)
Girlie and Traveler--Thanks so much for your quick responses. This is truly a hellish nightmare--I honestly had no idea how torturous lyme could be until my sister got sick.

Your advice on thinking about months rather than weeks really helps, as well as the part about it not being a straight line and there being lots of ups and downs along the way. I've been trying to keep a journal and it's so hard to see a pattern--things are all over the place. I guess we just have to take it day by day and just try to get her through. And I'll try to find more ways to add detoxing into the schedule.
Posted 1/20/2016 6:32 PM (GMT 0)
I'm glad we've been of some help to you, Laura!! It's much more like a roller coaster (with a few loops throw in too!!) than anything in my opinion! And you get to ride it blind folded! LOL! smhair

Keep up with the journaling!! It will most definitely help, you just have to get some 'background' going so that you have something to compare to. Those symptom patterns will show up, I promise.

It was hard enough going through this myself, I really can't imagine being in your position. I've been blessed to have both of my children healthy for the most part, so I don't even have that experience.

Hang in there, and keep posting, asking questions, and finding the support you need!!
Posted 1/20/2016 6:34 PM (GMT 0)

Traveler said...
I hope you don't mind, Lymedriven, but I too much put up a warning here - even if you are taking "safe" levels of the herb, there is still quite a bit of danger here. This may or may not pertain to you, but I ask that you read this anyway - just to be sure you are aware of this.

I need to emphasize the danger in just raising the dose of herbs that a person is taking by that much suddenly. While you may do okay with it, it's still not good - why? Because, if the body is dealing with too many toxins, it won't be healing.

The worse the herx, the less healing will be going on. Herxes can be life threatening for some due to a cytokine cascade that can be started during a herx. This is why we always say to "go low and slow". It's a controlled herx that we look for, not something that we change abruptly to see how much our bodies can handle. In the 8 years that I have been here, I've known 3 people that have tried to push through a horrible herx and end up in the hospital because of it. We never know just how much more we can push before the body takes a turn for the worst and we end up needing emergency services to stay alive.

So, just how many mgs is in each pill? I was using dried Houttuynia leaf to make a medicinal tea and only used 3 grams daily. How would you say your dose compares? That way we won't worry about you quite so much. :-)


Also, Sida treats quite a few things. Do you have any of Buhner's books? I have his Herbal Abx book and was looking up Sida Acuta and was slightly surprised to see just how many things it treats - including Herpes, Mycobactrerium phlei, staph, strep as well as others. It's possible that you have one of these or Babesia as well if you are getting a reaction when using it.

3 grams yesterday. taken last night....feeling perfectly well this morning and took another 2 grams this morning.

I had to adjust my other protocols a bit I must say.

I'm focusing on chronic tonic...and the herbs used to bartonella as that seems to be having the most effectiveness.
Posted 1/20/2016 6:38 PM (GMT 0)
I"m glad to know that you are not over the 3 grams daily! Thank you. :-)

I'm also glad to hear that you are watching your symptoms closely enough to know when to adjust things!! I always worry about people pushing too fast through these treatments - I've never seen it lead down a good path. People usually end up worse than when they started.
Posted 1/20/2016 7:34 PM (GMT 0)
If this is the first time you're treating Bartonella, I can only echo the advice already given about going low and slow.

I treated Lyme with abx for 5 months and followed the full Cowden protocol for almost 6 months.

I had some of my worst-ever herxes on low doses of Buhner's Bartonella and Babesia herbs.

It's much easier...and healthier... to slowly increase than to have to stop taking an herb for several days while you try to tame a herx.

Proceed with caution.
Posted 1/20/2016 10:37 PM (GMT 0)
LymeDriven...

A couple things.

I'm with you on hammering away HARDER if you can tolerate it and when you are like 85-95% well. In fact, I am now doing the exact same thing you are, I'm hitting back this houttuynia and sida acuta like there's no tomorrow! And I am herxing again. I decided I need to be far more aggressive to get well and off antibiotics. I mix these tinctures in my afternoon coffee. Today my bartonella burning is back and pretty strong. I think the bartonella is struggling right now. I already learned my lesson, you have to hammer away harder towards the end, otherwise you will be like me and be stuck at 85-95% well for the next year or so... Or worse just be chronically sick. Just hammer away towards the end of treatment and the risk of a brutal herx is way down as the microbial load is also down. But also be aware of cytokine storms that could happen. Either way I'm done keeping the doses down, not ever ramping up, and praying it will be gone in a couple months because that strategy has got me no where.

But also for your info... MY LLMD made the comment that houttuynia can actually induce a lyme herx. Yup, and I didn't even know that. Apparently it duals up and treats lyme, and some people get a herx from it.... Or who knows maybe it's just a bart herx and my LLMD thinks bart doesn' herx so blames it as a lyme herx lol. But anyways, I am saying it's a bart herx, and this time I'm not going to give bart any breathing room.
Posted 1/20/2016 10:44 PM (GMT 0)
On the going slow in adding herbs, does this mean that I should wait until I get Cowden's Houttuynia up to full dose (30 drops 2x/day) before adding a new herb? Or keep it at a low level (& drops?) and slowly add others (like Sida, Alchornea, Cryptolepsis)? I also have Artemisinin on hand, but now I'm not sure I should even add it (I'm still waiting on all the Buhner books I ordered). Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.
Posted 1/20/2016 11:12 PM (GMT 0)

LauraJK said...
On the going slow in adding herbs, does this mean that I should wait until I get Cowden's Houttuynia up to full dose (30 drops 2x/day) before adding a new herb? Or keep it at a low level (& drops?) and slowly add others (like Sida, Alchornea, Cryptolepsis)? I also have Artemisinin on hand, but now I'm not sure I should even add it (I'm still waiting on all the Buhner books I ordered). Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.

Choice 2 :)

Julie McIntyre, Buhner's associate, recommends getting entire protocols going at low doses before increasing.

Reason being: herbs have synergistic effects - they enhance the actions of each other.



My healing went from 90% when I started Buhner's Lyme, Bart and Babs protocols in August 2014 and improved to 98%.

Yet, I was only on 8 drops each of the Babs and Bart herbs at the start of December. Previous attempts at increasing resulted in herxing that impacted my life too much.

Those small doses were obviously effective for me.

Ironically, I was able to increase from those 8 drops each all the way up to 1/4 - 1/2 tsp of each herb by mid-December.

Buhner emphasizes the need for us to listen to our bodies. Herxing delays healing because of the increased inflammation. Going low and slow is the best way to go....and detox, detox, detox ;)

Oh....Traveler explained this lousy journey quite well. Everyone's is slightly different but it's definitely too long no matter what.

Serious infections such as TB, Q Fever, Hepatitis, etc. all require protracted treatment. Lyme and Co's are no exception.....and, the fact that most of us are fighting multiple infections just makes things that much more challenging.

Thankfully, people do heal.
Posted 1/20/2016 11:24 PM (GMT 0)
I'd wait on the Artemisinin until after your sister has been taking CSA awhile.

Artemisinin can be very effective for some people and do nothing for others. You never know which category applies to someone starting it.

Remember: "effective" can often mean "herx".

Buhner recommends 100-200mg 3x daily for no more than 30 days. He says that it's most effective the first 7 days a person takes it....and then effectiveness drops off substantially (LLMD's say it's because our intestines produce an enzyme that counteracts its effects).

Many LLMD's pulse artemisinin and sometimes at high doses. Buhner says pulsing doesn't increase the effectiveness.....and is concerned about people taking high doses for periods up to a year or longer. He says this because artemisinin can cause neurotoxicity when taken long-term.
Posted 1/20/2016 11:30 PM (GMT 0)
CD- thanks so much for your advice. I honestly don't know what I would do without this forum.
Posted 1/21/2016 12:39 AM (GMT 0)
Just wanted to pop in and echo what CD said about everything!! LOL! Honestly, she gave really good information. :-)
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