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Rifampin appears to of petered out after 2 weeks
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Rikky1
Veteran Member
Joined : Jun 2015
Posts : 3153
Posted 2/1/2016 9:01 PM (GMT 0)
Switched from Zithro/Mepron to Cipro/Rifampin as my doctor thinks I might be fighting Bart. After only 2 days the chest issues subsided and were pretty good until the last few days its back to being bad. Yeah I know you'll all tell me you need more than 2 weeks to see continual progress but I know given my history when something starts/stops working it happens fairly quickly and stays that way. I was on Zithro/Mepron two times almost 6 months and I knew when I plateaued and stayed that way. Same thing with Cefdinir/Tinidazole was good for almost 2.5 months and then I just hit a wall.
I'll be on this combo at least another 2 weeks so I'll have a month to see the full picture. Maybe the doctor will add something to it for another month to get more data. Kinda annoyed as I can't seem to get the head or chest thing under control and herbs and such don't appear to be impacting it.
Girlie
Forum Moderator
Joined : May 2014
Posts : 48365
Posted 2/1/2016 9:57 PM (GMT 0)
Rikky- what is your dose of Rifampin?
Rikky1
Veteran Member
Joined : Jun 2015
Posts : 3153
Posted 2/1/2016 11:03 PM (GMT 0)
I'm taking 600mg once per day in morning on empty stomach. I take Cipro 500mg 2x per day the first I take with Rifampin. I probably need more time for it to work to see if I have in fact Bart. My primary head and chest symptoms the way I describe don't seem to fit any classic symptoms of Lyme, Babs or Bart which is frustrating to say the least.
Girlie
Forum Moderator
Joined : May 2014
Posts : 48365
Posted 2/1/2016 11:08 PM (GMT 0)
I wonder if maybe biaxin was paired with the Rifampin you might have a better result.
Take a look at this webinar - Dr. Mozayeni - treats it with biaxin and rifampin
here's the link:
www.galaxydx.com/web/2015/webinar-understanding-bartonella/
Rikky1
Veteran Member
Joined : Jun 2015
Posts : 3153
Posted 2/2/2016 12:06 AM (GMT 0)
Thanks Girlie. The research I came across from Dr. Ross in 2013 said rifampin decreases doxy and biaxin blood levels and I quote:
Rifampin-based Treatments: In these treatments Rifampin is the main effective ingredient. I combine Rifampin 300mg 2 pills 1 time a day with one of the following: minocycline 100mg 1 pill 2 times a day, bactrim DS 1 pill 2 times a day or azithromycin (Zithromax) 500mg 1 pill time a day. Doxycycline 100mg 1 or 2 2 times a day can be substituted for the minocycline, but rifampin decreases doxycycline levels in the blood. Clarithromycin (Biaxin) 500mg 1 pill 2 times a day can be substituted for azithromycin but rifampin also decreases clarithromycin blood levels.
Girlie
Forum Moderator
Joined : May 2014
Posts : 48365
Posted 2/2/2016 12:58 AM (GMT 0)
Yes, Rikky, I have read that (I subcribe to TreatLyme.net), but it is still one of his protocols and is often prescribed by LLMD's.
(Doxy and Rifampin; mino with Rifampin two other combos)
Girlie
Forum Moderator
Joined : May 2014
Posts : 48365
Posted 2/2/2016 12:59 AM (GMT 0)
Hopefully you will notice something in the upcoming weeks.
Rikky1
Veteran Member
Joined : Jun 2015
Posts : 3153
Posted 2/2/2016 3:57 PM (GMT 0)
Girlie I noticed something alright last night I had a severe case of chest tightness and early in the morning my right arm started getting all tingly. Wife says classic heart attack symptoms so we went to ER. Thankfully heart checked out ok so its the bugs. I did lots of detoxing but didn't do much. I have a call into the LLMD he'll probably back me down on the rifampin and/or switch me off cipro we'll see.
Girlie
Forum Moderator
Joined : May 2014
Posts : 48365
Posted 2/2/2016 7:28 PM (GMT 0)
Are you sure it's not a herx?
Maybe discuss with him trying the Rifampin without the Cipro - maybe it was just too much?
They're not usually paired together - (I'm not an 'expert' - but just going on what I see here on the forum and on other 'blogs' on the internet, as well as several Dr.'s treatment protocols)
Rikky1
Veteran Member
Joined : Jun 2015
Posts : 3153
Posted 2/2/2016 7:34 PM (GMT 0)
Girlie I just posted another thread that my armpit lymph nodes are now swollen so yes this was most likely a herx and my system is overloaded so my lymph nodes are backed up. I've NEVER had lymph node issues so this pretty much confirms I have Bart. I would've bet you the farm I didn't have Bart and looks like I would've lost!
The Rifampin/Cipro probably was too much.
Using a Fluoroquinolone with Rifampin is a tier 1 treatment for Bart according to my research I did post a bunch of notes I found online if you want to peruse it.
I'm waiting for my LLMD to call me back but knowing my heart is ok I might just stay with current regimen and focus on making myself as comfortable as possible. I want this thing out of my system as quickly as I can without killing myself of course.
Girlie
Forum Moderator
Joined : May 2014
Posts : 48365
Posted 2/2/2016 8:42 PM (GMT 0)
Are you talking about
Dr. M.R. Tier 1 treatment?
He doesn't have them together:
Tier One
Rifampin-based Treatments. In these treatments Rifampin is the main effective ingredient. I combine Rifampin 300mg 2 pills 1 time a day with one of the following:
minocycline 100mg 1 pill 2 times a day,
bactrim DS 1 pill 2 times a day or
azithromycin (Zithromax) 500mg 1 pill time a day.
Doxycycline 100mg 1 or 2 2 times a day can be substituted for the minocycline, but rifampin decreases doxycycline levels in the blood. Clarithromycin (Biaxin) 500mg 1 pill 2 times a day can be substituted for azithromycin but rifampin also decreases clarithromycin blood levels.
Flouroquinolone-based Treatments. Flouroquinolones are a class of antibiotics that include a number of members like levofloxacin (Levaquin) and ciprofloxacin (Cipro). I combine levofloxacin 500mg time a day or rciprofloxacin 500mg 1 pill 2 times a day with one of the following:
minocycline 100mg 1 pill 2 times a day,
doxycyline 100mg 1 to 2 pills 2 times a day, or
bactrim ds 1 pill 2 times a day.
Clarithromycin and azithromycinare not used with flouroquinolones because together they may cause heart rhythm problems. Levofloxacinseems stronger than the ciprofloxacin.
CD3764
Veteran Member
Joined : Sep 2014
Posts : 4510
Posted 2/2/2016 9:42 PM (GMT 0)
Hey Rikky,
So sorry you've been dealing with such craziness but I think your experience is helping you get to full healing.
Bart could have very well been impeding your healing from Babs. Another layer peeled and I hope it's the final one for you!!!
Best of luck to you moving forward!
Girlie
Forum Moderator
Joined : May 2014
Posts : 48365
Posted 2/2/2016 10:33 PM (GMT 0)
Not only are the swollen/sore lymph nodes a sign of infection...but they are also a symptom of Bart in particular.
My worst constellation of symptoms (shoulder blade- sore/stiff, radiculopathy - upper back/left arm/hand/finger) also include a swollen and sore lymph node in the clavicle on my left side.
i also had one behind my ear on the right side.
BTW - I hope I haven't upset or angered you by questioning the rifampin/cipro combo....I'm sorry if I have.
It's because I am concerned about
that combo being 'too harsh'...and don't want you to suffer.
Rikky1
Veteran Member
Joined : Jun 2015
Posts : 3153
Posted 2/2/2016 11:37 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks Girlie that was the research I was referring to and you are correct they aren't both part of Tier 1 but separate thanks for pointing that out.
I'm speaking to my LLMD tomorrow I think I'm going to tell him I want off the Cipro and maybe try a tetracycline as it sounds like you need to pair Rifampin with something to avoid resistance.
No apologies I need to be kept straight!
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