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Bartonella Treatment as per Buhner's Book

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Posted 3/17/2016 3:05 PM (GMT 0)
Mods, please delete if this is not allowed.

I purchased the book a while ago, but didn't pay attention to it until I realized that Bart is seriously my main bugger. I have read sections of the book and understand the jist of it. Basically, Bart likes to live in the endothelial tissues. This tissue is prominent in your blood vessels, spleen, liver heart. It also likes the brain and lymph nodes. Great....

So, what we gotta do is make our bodies a hostile environment. To do that, we have reduce the cytokine cascade and protect/support the body. Buhner has done this by researching natural compounds that reduce cytokines AND protect the body. It's as follows:

Japanese knotweed: tincture, 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon 3xday
EGCG with quercetin: 800mg EGCG, 1200mg Q
L-Arginine: 500-1000mg 3xday
Cordyceps: tincture, 1/4 teaspoon 3xday, OR powder: 1 tablespoon 3xday, OR capsules: 2000mg 3xday
Sida Acuta:30-60 drops 3-4xday
Red root:Tincture, 1/4-1/2 teaspoon 3xday
Milk thistle seed: 1200mg day
Hawthorn: tincture 1/4-1/2 teaspoon 3xday
Rhodiola/Ashwagandha combo: equal parts 1/2 teaspoon 3xday
Isatis/Houttuynia/Alchornea(cordifolia) combo: Equal parts 1/2 teaspoon 3xday
Pomegranate juice: throughout the day
Vit E: 200IU or 150mg (optional)

That's the basic protocol.

Now, he does offer more herbs specifically for Brain/CNS, neural pain, anxiety, fear, sleep, severe fatigue, cough, severe anemia, wasting. So, you can read up a bit on these.

He does recommend zeolite for detox. I know there are mixed reviews on this.

For biofilms: NAC, greater celandine, and royal jelly. But, for some reason he feels these things are not a must.

I ordered my supplements from Amazon. Mostly Jarrow brand. I found the pomegranate juice at Trader Joes. Way too expensive online. And I ordered my tinctures from Montana Farmacy. I would recommend calling them and asking for a bundle option. I'm thinking of ordering from Sage Woman next for comparison. I've heard good things about them.

So, there you have it. In the book, Buhner explains what specific action each product makes; whether it's protective or a natural ABX. Therefor, one should buy the book. At the very least, research each product. For example, I don't think I should take the EGCG so, I'll start taking Matcha tea. Basically, just be smart about what might not be great for you. Lastly, take things SLOW! Herbs are extremely powerful and we must respect them. -Blessings
Posted 3/17/2016 3:08 PM (GMT 0)
good stuff for sure. bartonella has been the main source of my issues from day 1 and it didn't fully dawn on myself or my LLMD for a year into treatment. now its kicking my butt with the swollen lymph nodes and constant chest pain/tightness that won't seem to dissipate. i'm on rifampin/doxy now but am definitely going to push my LLMD to add the buhner herbals next visit. this is a great summary for it thanks for posting!
Posted 3/17/2016 3:12 PM (GMT 0)
I'm curious why you believe the EGCG isn't a good option for you? And what is it in the Matcha tea that will do better? Just a curious mind at work.

I can't take either due to the caffeine content because I'm trying to heal my adrenals.
Posted 3/17/2016 3:16 PM (GMT 0)
No prob Rikky. It's fantastic that you found your main culprit. For me, it was like a light bulb went off in my head. Don't worry, it will def get better. Just really focus on Bart.

You mentioned the lymph nodes. My R armpit has ALWAYS been swollen; even as a child. So, that was my big clue. I looked up lymph massages on YouTube. And I've been doing them every time I do an epsom bath. Let me tell you, it's shrunk to half the size! So, I'm thinking good and bad bc now i gotta really kick up the detoxing. Anywho, look it up. It might really help get things out for you. Also, the red root (I think) is really terrific for lymph congestion.

You'll get there. Blessings on your journey!
Posted 3/17/2016 3:24 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Trav,

I don't remember exactly with all these hours of reading, but I think the caff content will be too much for me. Whenever I take pills that contain caff, my heart starts jumping around like a rabbit. I just ran out of my Matcha so I gotta order it again. I never have palpitations while taking Matcha and my BP does not increase. It's just safer for me. I think anyways!

I am really, really interested in healing the adrenals though. Someone told me one should start there before healing the thyroid. Have you heard this too?
Posted 3/17/2016 3:26 PM (GMT 0)
Interesting, as I thought Matcha had caffeine as well. Oops!

No, actually the adrenals and the thyroid are very closely tied - you need to work on both of them. My adrenals crashed and took my thyroid down with it. I"m currently treating both as well as treating Bart and will be treating Babs again soon as well.
Posted 3/17/2016 3:46 PM (GMT 0)
It truly does have caffeine. You are correct! It just happens to not affect my heart for some weird reason. It's not scientifically understandable why it doesn't give me palps, but I just say "thank you" and drink!

Ok, good to know. Thanks! I know I need to work on my adrenals and thyroid. I'm just wondering when is it a good time bc I feel like I'm back into combat fighting bugs.
Posted 3/17/2016 3:49 PM (GMT 0)
@Leilex- Thanks for posting on this. I also have his book on Bartonella, but it's nice to just have a page with the protocol. Just curious, how did you figure out that Bartonella was your main problem? We're still not certain with my sister (we have an LLMD appointment coming up at the end of the month), but I'm starting to think this might be the case with her as well, though it seems her symptoms could be either Lyme or Bart.

Also, I'd appreciate any updates you have on using his full protocol. I'm trying to do all three of Buhner's protocols (Lyme, Bart, Babs) for my sister, and our counter is already full of pills and drops. I haven't gotten all of the pieces for any of his protocols b/c there's just so much I'm giving her already. But maybe it makes sense to do the Bart protocol completely. Right now, we're still missing the Arginine, Quercetin, Cordyceps, Hawthorn, Rhodiola/Ashwagandha, Istatis, and Pomegranate juice.
Posted 3/17/2016 6:24 PM (GMT 0)
L. - Awesome post!! I ran out of my A-BAB and A-Bart a while ago and I know whilst on them they made a HUGE difference. I am waiting to get more - actually I cannot wait to get more of that BW stuff - it really works well for me at higher doses. Feel better soon, L.!!
Posted 3/17/2016 6:29 PM (GMT 0)
Protocol: Page 344

Laura,

I'm so sorry your sister has Lyme. She's lucky to have you. I hope she gets well soon!

My main symptoms are swollen lymphs, burning sensations (back, brain, soles, and muscles), bone pain (shin, forearm, finger, wrists, ankles). I used to have extreme anxiety and depression. That's gone with treatment. My temp is also pretty regular at 98.6. It all points to Bart for me.

I do have Babs for sure, but it isn't severe. So, I'll wait for right now to treat it. From what I keep reading it's best to focus on one Co at a time, then fight Lyme. So, that's what I'm trying to do. But, I want to start monolaurin again bc I know that fights many things at the same time.

It's such an individual choice. And it's sometimes difficult when trying to understand the complexity of the situation. Just try to listen to your intuition bc it usually leads you down the right path.

Oh, and yes, I'll for sure update. It's going to be slow going bc I want to add things in at a 3 day interval.

Here's a question for you and others. Can one treat the three at the same time with Buhner's protocols??
Posted 3/17/2016 6:37 PM (GMT 0)
Hey need, glad i could help.

I'm so glad you posted bc I have tried the ABart and it really does work! So... Do you take both of them together on the same days? Or you take them on separate days/times? I'm a bit confused on them!
Posted 3/17/2016 6:49 PM (GMT 0)
Hey L. yeah. I was taking both of them in AM - 20 minutes apart from each other and then again just before dinner - both - 20 minutes apart from each other. You know these tinctures really do keep the nasties at bay. I took them non-stop every day for a little over two years and then I ran out of the tinctures and all those creepy nasties came back. Luckily, yesterday I finally got my prescription filled for more of those two tinctures and I cannot wait for my shipment. Been trying to keep positive and keep a stiff upper lip so to speak, but I know I have got to be back on them. I am also going to start the BW detoxing tinctures along with the A-bab and A-bart. After these nasty couple weeks I have been having, I have got to be aggressive again with treatment.
Posted 3/17/2016 7:00 PM (GMT 0)
Hey, thanks need! Aw, I'm sorry you're going through a rough patch right now. That stinks. But you'll get better soon! For sure. Can you try Buhner's protocol for just supporting the body? Cause it seems like you can def kill the buggers. I'm not sure the ABX parts from Buhner mix with BW. That's another question entirely.

Thanks for the info. I was really curious about mixing BW!
Posted 3/17/2016 8:59 PM (GMT 0)
You are most welcome. Leilex, and I thank you in return for your posts and kind well wishes, too! I have mixed other herbals in my routine like wild yam, ashwagandha, avena sativa, detox teas, colloidal silver, parasite tincture etc with BW products and it was fine - just make sure that you take other supplements and stuff 20-30 minutes away from them. Just not cocktail them together. I don't take synthetic ABX so I can't comment on that. I am glad you dropped into the Forum again - hope you feel better ASAP, too!!
Posted 3/18/2016 2:22 AM (GMT 0)

Leilex said...
ere's a question for you and others. Can one treat the three at the same time with Buhner's protocols??

I've been doing exactly that since August of last year (I only got up to full doses of the Babs/Bart herbs in mid-December....the Lyme herbs were easier since I'd been treating Lyme longer).
Posted 3/18/2016 2:27 AM (GMT 0)

LauraJK said...
I haven't gotten all of the pieces for any of his protocols b/c there's just so much I'm giving her already. But maybe it makes sense to do the Bart protocol completely. Right now, we're still missing the Arginine, Quercetin, Cordyceps, Hawthorn, Rhodiola/Ashwagandha, Istatis, and Pomegranate juice.

Most of us take a LOT of stuff.

I take 17 different tinctures, 3 different mushroom powders and countless capsules/tablets. It's insane but it's what's bringing me healing.

I highly recommend starting the Quercetin (great antioxidant) and Hawthorne (so important for the heart and it's a food-grade herb...as safe as apples). It makes sense to me to get all the support stuff going so the body can begin to heal. Remember: beating these infections isn't just about killing the bugs - we need to heal our bodies and make them inhospitable to the organisms.
Posted 3/18/2016 2:33 AM (GMT 0)
thank you for sharing. It is free information like this that got me kick started and I wound up buying three of his books.
Posted 3/18/2016 2:39 AM (GMT 0)
It was this forum that got me buying books and reading articles and then ultimate got me trusting the knowledge on here.

I love this place.
Posted 3/18/2016 11:46 AM (GMT 0)
For whatever it's worth, Buhner says that all of the herbs from all of his protocols can be used with all of the herbs from all other herbal protocols.....and they can safely be taken along with abx.
Posted 3/18/2016 5:40 PM (GMT 0)
CD- Thanks. I went ahead yesterday and ordered rest of what I was missing from the Bart protocol. The only parts we are skipping are the Arginine and the Isatis. Looks like I already have the Hawthorn on hand, so we'll get that one started today.
Posted 3/18/2016 6:12 PM (GMT 0)
Good luck, LauraJK!!!

Please don't hesitate to post questions as you go along. We're rooting for all of you!!!
Posted 3/18/2016 7:37 PM (GMT 0)
i bought the buhler book and began to collect the herbs.

i got the alchornea in powder form, and buhler says you can make a tea, but he doesn't suggest a dosage or a schedule.

i brewed 1/8 teaspoon of leaf/powder in 8 oz of hot water, and drank 1/2 cup of the brew twice a day.

when i called my llmd she initially said i should use a half teaspoon of leaf three times a day,

but when i told her what i was doing, she said to continue with that, and try to up the dosage.

anybody out there have any experience with the powdered form of alchornea.
Posted 3/18/2016 7:49 PM (GMT 0)
Hi oldfarmer - welcome to our community,

This is your second post here, but I see that we never officially welcomed you when you first joined a couple months ago.

We have a lot of members doing Buhner's protocol - some with capsules, others with tinctures, and even some as a tea.

Have you read through the "New to Lyme?..Start here!" thread (it sits at the top of Page 1). It's got a lot of great information.
Posted 3/19/2016 12:50 AM (GMT 0)
I suspect that I have Bartonella as well, I haven't done a blood test but I read sypmtoms on the google and I got confused, could someone clarify for me the most important symptoms? tia :)
Posted 3/19/2016 1:43 AM (GMT 0)
blueberrymuffin -

Here are links to two sites with comprehensive Bartonella symptoms lists:

www.personalconsult.com/posts/bartonella-checklist.html

www.gordonmedical.com/unravelling-complex-chronic-illness/bartonella-like-organisms-blo-consideration-signs-and-symptoms/

Just so you know, Bartonella is so common that scientists are saying Lyme should be considered the coinfection.

And, it's entirely possible to be asymptomatically infected with Bartonella (that was the case for me - it wasn't until I started treating that I herxed with Bartonella symptoms).

The CDC addresses this situation on their website:

www.cdc.gov/bartonella/clinicians/index.html

"Most cases of cat scratch disease (CSD) resolve without treatment", although some patients may develop complications from disseminated disease."

Cat scratch disease is the henselae strain of Bartonella which is a common coinfection to Lyme.

Most savvy LLMD's trial meds for the 3 B's - Borrellia (Lyme), Babesia and Bartonella since they are the most prevalent infections and treating for those often takes care of the other coinfections.
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