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Bartonella and Babesia Pulse Therapy?
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outunderthestars
Regular Member
Joined : Jan 2016
Posts : 25
Posted 4/18/2016 6:21 PM (GMT 0)
Has anyone used pulsed antibiotics for either Bartonella or Babesia (ie. 3 weeks on, 1 week off)? Is this more effective than continuous antibiotic therapy for either of these two?
Post Edited (outunderthestars) : 4/18/2016 12:24:18 PM (GMT-6)
Girlie
Forum Moderator
Joined : May 2014
Posts : 48365
Posted 4/18/2016 6:49 PM (GMT 0)
Pulsing lyme has been recognized for quite some time.
There are some thoughts that Bartonella (not sure about
Babs) - should not be pulsed as you do with Lyme. The belief was that these infections would develop resistance to the abx.
But, after several months on Rifampin (twice daily) paired with Mino and then biaxin...i have started pulsing.
The Dr. J (D.C.) - pulses all his protocols. He talks about
this method allowing the immune system to kick in.
There are other LLMD's who do pulse Bart as well.
M/W/F - and will do a week break usually after two weeks.
I have been emailing a forum member who pulsed all protocols - lyme/bart/babs and is off all antibiotics now - except for the first three days of each month (this is to catch any persisters)
I am not advocating/recommending this ...I'm doing this with the consent of my LLND.
But, I do feel better on this protocol...I felt somewhat toxic taking them all daily...hard to explain.
As far as Babesia goes...I will be pulsing - I will be taking Artemisinin - and if that one is taken for too long without a break - the intestines create an enzyme that kills the herb.
I will most likely be pulsing it with Mepron.
bluelyme
Veteran Member
Joined : Nov 2015
Posts : 6219
Posted 4/18/2016 9:18 PM (GMT 0)
Girlie Did you test positive for babs ? Or are you treating empirically. ..? I have low iron but quest test came back negative last year...i want to do a giemsa stain and see if i can see it ....also do you feel you knocked out bart or at least back?..nurse just gave me rifampin and natropath said to pulse it ? I dont want to tax my liver with too much at once ...
Girlie
Forum Moderator
Joined : May 2014
Posts : 48365
Posted 4/18/2016 11:01 PM (GMT 0)
Bluelyme - I only tested Igenex Positive for Lyme. No co-infection testing done.
Unfortunately, my LLND had me take Lyme only abx for 9 1/2 months. I improved in some ways, but not in others...and even got a few new symptoms.
IMO, after 5-6 months tops - I should have started treating co-infections.
I didn't know what my LLND had in mind...but I emphasized my bart symptoms - in the next appt..and then he put me on the Rifampin.
I think Bart has been my dominant infection all along..but it took me several months to realize it. My worst symptoms have always been nervous system related...and one of my first symptoms was rib pain...also anxiety...and body wide twitching...that points to bart.
I am giving bart treatment a few more weeks, and then will go after Babesia.
This past week...I am thinking there is a shift for the better...almost scared to say anything...that's how fragile I am about
it all.
The interesting thing about
the liver...around 6 or 7 months on lyme treatment...my liver enzymes started to climb..and at 9 1/2 months - I was told by my LLND to take a break. I did for 2 1/2 months...and was freaking out that I wouldn't be able to do the Rifampin as I read it's hard on the liver. But, my liver enzymes continued to drop while on Rifampin...they've been good now since I started Rifampin last August.
LymePickle
Veteran Member
Joined : Mar 2014
Posts : 2132
Posted 4/19/2016 4:07 PM (GMT 0)
Bartonella can actually cause elevated liver enzymes! So it's one of those things like you take the rifampin and have to watch for elevated liver enzymes, but then the bartonella and Bart die off also causes elevated liver enzymes.
I have very strong feelings that my Bart is resistant to antibiotics. I don't want to speak for other people's Bart though...
By far the most effective Bart treatment I got was minocycline + Septra DS + clarithromycin. ... The FIRST time around I took this combo. When I first took this combo my Bart was like symptom free after JUST 6 weeks! But I stopped the abx because my kidneys ached... I have Bart a few days and bam it's back again. Give it an inch and it takes a mile. I haven't been able to get to that level of progress since The end of September 2014... But I was taking the buhner Bart protocol at that time as well so that may have had something to do with it. Maybe I need to keep up with those herbs in that protocol.
Also adding in silver soon.
tickbite666
Veteran Member
Joined : Mar 2014
Posts : 2145
Posted 4/19/2016 5:12 PM (GMT 0)
I second what LymePickle wrote. My first occurrence of elevated AST/ALT levels was shortly after round 1 of my many Bart battles. First round was Zith, Rif and Doxy. Most effective round was mino, plaquenil, and Rifampin that got me to 90% as well, but weaned off ABX too soon and relapsed. Also mixed in a lot of Buhners herbs. Silver Hydrosol is also part of my protocol.
Girlie
Forum Moderator
Joined : May 2014
Posts : 48365
Posted 4/19/2016 5:20 PM (GMT 0)
..interesting that my liver enzymes were high prior to bart treatment (maybe killing the lyme allowed bart to take over?)
But then after the antibiotic break and then the addition of Bart antibiotics, my liver enzymes normalized and continued to go down...
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