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A few thyroid questions/comments re: hubby (Cd...Astroman?)

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Posted 4/24/2016 7:17 PM (GMT 0)
Background (you may remember this from prior posting) - husband has been on T4 for several years - was diagnosed hypothyroid - symptoms at the time was joint pain,stiffness, fatigue, brain fog.

He also tested positive for LD.

We are waiting to treat him...1) until I am well enough to go back to work 2) I want to make sure he is on the right dose of T4...and don't want to muddy the water.

So, his labs were 'in range'...but not feeling great...so we have 'upped' his T4...and he is pushing for his TSH, FT3 and FT4 to be tested in a few weeks. He is feeling a tad better...but may need another raise.

If his FT3 follows his FT4 - and goes up and both get into the top end of range - that means he's converting T4 to T3 effectively, correct? And...does that mean he doesn't need to try the T3?
We can't go solely on symptoms...because he has LD and obviously some could be attributed to that.

Do we generally add T3 when the FT4 gets into the top of the range...but the FT3 is lagging?

Thanks for all your help/insight!!!
Posted 4/24/2016 9:49 PM (GMT 0)
"If his FT3 follows his FT4 - and goes up and both get into the top end of range - that means he's converting T4 to T3 effectively, correct? "

- Yes, correct. In that case, its his own T3 being made from T4.

"And...does that mean he doesn't need to try the T3?"

- Technically correct

----------------------------------
However, there is a gray area. Some people mysteriously feel better on desiccated pig thyroid, even though Synthetic T4 and T3 are said to be identical. But they are synthetic. There is no way to prove symptom relief by a lab report.

A person would have to have tried both to provide an accurate opinion. I have used both, I feel better on desiccated, regardless of my levels on synthetics. So I guess I'm one of the odd ones.

There is also no test that shows what thyroid hormones our cells are using. The best tests, the "free" only show whats available in our blood, not whats used.

You can pile all the food on a kids plate, but will only eat what he/she wants to. Our cells might not be so different in what they accept.

Related note: Our bodies can tell when plastic or metal parts are implanted, thus a lifetime of a certain medication is required for our immune system to be masked from certain these man made implantable medical devises.
Posted 4/24/2016 9:58 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks, Astro. My husband did try Erfa - it was a fail. It was last summer, and we had a heat wave...and he couldn't handle the sweating...and I think he had a bit of anxiety along with it.
He works in an office...and the meeting room is small...so the facial sweating just wasn't an option for him.

When I was asking about T3...I was meaning the Cytomel. - He's been saying to me..'Maybe I should add some of that in"
But, I thought we should just try raising the Synthroid - since his T3 seems to be following his T4 - meaning he is converting...I thought that would be the first option?
Posted 4/24/2016 10:34 PM (GMT 0)
Adding Cyto T3 would most likely not be beneficial to him if his T3 seems to be following his T4 (from T4 med). Scratch that off your "to try" list.

And, even if he did try it, he would most likely sweat from Cytomel also. Thats what happens with many people starting T3, synthetic form or natural. The body seems to take a while to get used to it, even for those who need it.
Posted 4/24/2016 11:06 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks, Astro.
I told my hubby that if he was sweating on the Erfa - it was most likely the T3 component...so I think he will sweat with adding Cyto T3. But, he doesn't always listen to me...lol.


We will get another set of labs (it's very difficult getting a Dr. to say 'okay' to FT3 and FT4) in a few weeks...and maybe up the Synthroid...and see if he feels good...and then test again.
Posted 4/25/2016 1:03 AM (GMT 0)
Hi, I don't know much about hormon meds, but I want to recommend a supplement he could start to use, my aunt used it with her regular thyroid meds and it helped her a lot - Astaxanthin
Posted 4/25/2016 1:14 AM (GMT 0)
Of course, I agree with astroman ;)

Do you mind sharing Hubby's most recent thyroid labs?
Posted 4/25/2016 2:17 AM (GMT 0)
cd, I will look for his labs...I'm pretty sure the last ones showed a high TSH and maybe mid-range FT3 and FT4 - but not sure...I have to find them...
That was a few months after he was trying to transition from T4 to Erfa.

He has just increased his T4 to a little over 156 mcg. (He has been prescribed 125 , and takes that plus 1/4 of another tab) He was on 125 for a few years prior.
Posted 4/25/2016 2:46 AM (GMT 0)
Girlie - no need to look for his labs if his TSH was high.

The true test of his T4/T3 conversion capabilities will become more evident as TSH decreases with more appropriate treatment.

You see, when TSH decreases, that means the pituitary isn't stimulating the thyroid to produce hormone as much.

20% of conversion happens in the thyroid (the rest in peripheral tissues of the body).

If the thyroid isn't stimulated to produce as much hormone, that means there's a potential for less T3.

Endos think the body will compensate but soooo many things can interfere with conversion. It's quite the biochemical process.

Bottom line, everyone needs optimal thyroid levels for optimal health....no matter how they are achieved.

If hubby needs full T4 hormone replacement, you can multiple his weight in kg by 1.6 to get a general idea of how much hormone he will most likely need. Again, many variables with that.

I think you know that Lyme really did a number on my thyroid levels which is very common. The ALA I take certainly doesn't help. No matter what, I've needed dose increases every 4-6 wks. since I started my Lyme journey. I was taking 125mcg T4 + 10mcg T3 when I got bit by the tick in July 2014. I'm now taking 162mcg T4 + 18mcg T3 and pray these doses hold me awhile ;)
Posted 4/25/2016 3:00 AM (GMT 0)
I did the multiplication and the dose is 155.2 mcg. for his weight.

Pretty close to what he's on now...so we'll see what the labs say.

It's interesting about the weight though - when he first started the T4, he was prescribed 88 mcg but according to his weight then, he should have been on 137.5.


Yes, I did know that lyme messed with your thyroid - that's quite a change in meds you've had to adjust to...
Posted 4/25/2016 3:32 AM (GMT 0)
CD-

Pub med article on reduced converted T3 from Alpha Lipoic Acid:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1815532

I dont see how much ALA (or LA as they call it) was used in the test. So ALA lowers converted T3 amounts.

My thoughts: I wonder if it interferes with the conversion process, or if it lowers T3 after conversion? And does it lower measurable values of additional T3 med? If it did, this would be an easy way to get the T4/T3 ratio closer for people on pig thyroid.

Girlie, sorry for temporarily hijacking your thread, but I figured you might not mind LOL!
Posted 4/25/2016 3:54 AM (GMT 0)
grrrrr astroman!! hehe - of course not...I've hijacked many .... tongue
Posted 4/25/2016 3:55 AM (GMT 0)
Oh...Blueberrymuffin - I haven't heard of that med...I will look it up.
Posted 4/25/2016 12:56 PM (GMT 0)

Girlie said...
I did the multiplication and the dose is 155.2 mcg. for his weight.

Pretty close to what he's on now...so we'll see what the labs say.

It's interesting about the weight though - when he first started the T4, he was prescribed 88 mcg but according to his weight then, he should have been on 137.5.


Yes, I did know that lyme messed with your thyroid - that's quite a change in meds you've had to adjust to...

I weigh 135 lbs so you can see that the math goes just so far.

I knew you knew that Lyme messed with my thyroid lol Since hubby has Lyme, I know you recognize that his thyroid might be affected.

And, yes, the difference in my doses when I first started treating for Lyme and now is quite large. I do blame the ALA I started taking right after meeting my LLMD the first time for my need for more T3 but I only needed one T3 dose increase.

I started Motherwort in October of last year to help with Babesia anxiety herxes knowing there was a potential it could interfere with my thyroid. It worked well and I was willing to risk the need for 1-2 dose adjustments. However, I just couldn't stop my levels from going low and, after the 4th dose increase, I ditched the Motherwort lol

Adjusting to new doses wasn't too horrible because we'd "catch" the changes in my levels usually before symptoms developed (getting thyroid labs done every 4 wks. helps with this).

However, I just stayed in the hypo hole when taking Motherwort - that was over the holidays and Jan/Feb of this year. I was a brain-fogged mess lol
Posted 4/25/2016 1:15 PM (GMT 0)

astroman said...
CD-

Pub med article on reduced converted T3 from Alpha Lipoic Acid:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1815532

I dont see how much ALA (or LA as they call it) was used in the test. So ALA lowers converted T3 amounts.

My thoughts: I wonder if it interferes with the conversion process, or if it lowers T3 after conversion? And does it lower measurable values of additional T3 med? If it did, this would be an easy way to get the T4/T3 ratio closer for people on pig thyroid.

Girlie, sorry for temporarily hijacking your thread, but I figured you might not mind LOL!

Your thoughts have merit, astroman. However, I think further investigation is warranted.

My understanding was that ALA could lower the levels of thyroid hormone. Obviously, interfering with conversion can at first means a lowering of the FT3 level.

I think ALA also has the capability of lowering the FT4 level....because more T4 would be needed to convert to T3 once the FT3 level goes lower.

It's just one big mess lol
Posted 4/25/2016 1:53 PM (GMT 0)
CD- The number of suppliments that have to ability to mess with thyroid hormone med is getting longer than previously known. Now, more than ever, I want an instant, at home "thyroid meter"!
Posted 4/25/2016 2:40 PM (GMT 0)

astroman said...
CD- The number of suppliments that have to ability to mess with thyroid hormone med is getting longer than previously known. Now, more than ever, I want an instant, at home "thyroid meter"!

Tell me about it!!
Posted 4/25/2016 5:59 PM (GMT 0)

cd3764 said...

astroman said...
CD- The number of suppliments that have to ability to mess with thyroid hormone med is getting longer than previously known. Now, more than ever, I want an instant, at home "thyroid meter"!

Tell me about it!!


We have one for blood glucose....why not for thyroid? I think it's time.
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