Herbs for Babesia

Hi Everyone-

I am curious about your thoughts and experiences with treating Babs with herbs. I read that Babs should be treated for at least 5 months because that is the lifecycle of the red blood cells.

However when I read Buhner's info, I see him repeatedly saying not to use certain herbs for more than 30 days including CSA and artemisinin.

" If so, I would use cryptolepis, 1 tsp 3x daily of the tincture for 10-14 days for babesia. 3x daily is what I use for antibiotic resistant staph infection of long duration. Normally, babesia should not need to be treated for months and months with artemisinin. If it works it should work within 30 days max. Although cryptolepis has no known side effects or contraindications it is a strong herb and I definitely would not go over 30 days of use."
http://buhnerhealinglyme.com/basics/when-artemisinin-doesnt-work/

And

"For that kind of babesia I would recommend a combination tincture formula of Alchornea cordifolia, cryptolepis, and Sida acuta which you can get from Woodland Essence. For you I would suggest ¼ tsp 3x daily for 30 days. You can increase the dosage to ½ tsp if it seems necessary. If you really want to go at it from all directions I would recommend adding artemisinin tablets as well for 30 days."
http://buhnerhealinglyme.com/herbs/super-babesia/


I have already been on Art for more than 30 days total with a 1 week break after 3 weeks. I then added Crypto and I am up to 1/2 tsp 2 x a day. I have been on crypto for about 2 weeks I think.

The problem is, when I back off the Art, I get horrendous neck pain and stiffness. It started creeping back in when I took my 1 week break.

So if he suggests not to take these for more than 30 days, does that mean, breaks in between are ok? Or should I only be using them one at a time and rotate so that I am not using either for longer than 30 days at a time?

PeteZa-

So have you been staying on the Crypto continuously past 30 days then? I am curious to see when you go off in June, if any symptoms return.

What is the dosage you are taking?

Lymie mom - The Artemisinin should not be taken for an extended amount of time.
The intestines will develop an enzyme that kills it.

So, it is pulsed. Many different opinions on how to pulse.
I've read:
- 3 days on, 4 off
- 7-10 days on, 3 weeks off (or was it 4 weeks off?)
- M/W/F only
- 3 days on, 11 days off.

It seems to be the consensus of many (if not all) of LLMD's that pulsing of Artemisinin is necessary.


I've been on cryptolepis for than 30 days...I never knew that it had to be stopped.

Here is what I found on Buhner's website about cryptolepis and the 30 day rule:

"The reason for my reticence is the strength of the herb and the fact that I am unaware of any studies looking at long term use of the herb. I do think it could be used longer in lower doses once the high dose over 30 days has occurred. And no, there are no problems with candida that I am aware of."

He also said this:
"I am not aware of any side effects from the use of cryptolepis, however most traditional use has been of limited duration as has most trial studies on the herb. The physical impacts of the long term use of cryptolepis are unknown. I generally prefer limiting its use to 3 months at large doses, 6 months at lower doses."

So, I'm thinking he's playing it safe - as there haven't been studies on long-term use of Crypto.
This is from his website...and he may have another opinion since these statements were posted.

Thanks for all that info Girlie.

I had seen various pulsing suggestions similar to what you posted above, and I understand the reasoning behind it. However, I am not sure if it applies in my case. If my neck pain comes back during the 1 week break after 3 weeks of taking it and resolves again after I resume, then I would have to assume it is still working for me?

I guess I could try going off the Art and staying on the Crypto to see if that alone can keep the pain at bay. But if the Crypto is not effective for the pain, I am going back on the Art for as long as it keeps the pain away ( along with periodically checking liver enzymes).

This is all new to me. In the past, any abx or herbs made me feel worse (herxing). I never had an herb or drug actually make me feel better while on it. It's a miracle that I even decided on trying the Art when the pain was really bad. I just felt drawn to it.

Lymie mom - what about trying a couple of other Buhners herbs for Babesia? Maybe sida acuta and Alchornea cordifolia (sp?)
Then maybe if they are effective, this will allow you to take the break from the Artimisinin.

So, there's two things going on:
1) the intestines creating an enzyme that kills the Artimisinin if used for too long without a break...and
2) Babesia possibly developing resistance when only using one herb/antibiotic at a time.

Girlie said...
Lymie mom

So, there's two things going on:
1) the intestines creating an enzyme that kills the Artimisinin if used for too long without a break...and
2) Babesia possibly developing resistance when only using one herb/antibiotic at a time.

I read that Lyme and co-infections do not develop a resistance to herbs. So not sure if this is an issue. I see people saying they were tested and it came back negative for Babs or based on symptoms they think they have it. Here's my question. There are several strains so....some herbs may be better for one strain over another. But again if that dangon test said negative and/or you are symptomatic, how do target Babs adequately? A lot of the herbs that are being quoted are from a general babs perspective. And when you look at all the co-infections symptoms are listed at a general perspective, not the different strains where applicable. Being new to this it just seems as though this can be very complicated in some respects.