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Who DOESN'T experience joint pain?

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Posted 5/21/2016 4:56 PM (GMT 0)
I do/have experienced a countless list of lyme and co symptoms (both that you can see as well as feel). Also some "hallmark" symptoms that strongly indicate certain co-infections. The list is way too long to list out.

I have never experienced joint pain. However that is such a common and classic symptom of lyme and co. I've felt some of my nuckle joints feel weird and not "smooth" when I use those joints but never pain.

Is this strange or is joint pain just one of those things where "everyone is different"?

Just curious to see if there's anyone else that can say that have never experienced joint pain due to lyme and co through their journey (so far)?

Just seems to be a very common symptom to never have had.

I may be jinxing my self with this post so *knock on wood*
Posted 5/21/2016 4:59 PM (GMT 0)
"I may be jinxing my self with this post so *knock on wood*"

There have been a few times when I read about a symptom...and sure enough a few weeks or so, I get that symptom. that was in the beginning...and I was questioning my sanity.

Everyone IS different.

That is one of the reasons I kept 'passing by' lyme when I googled it.

fever - nope
fatigue - nope
flu like symptoms - nope
bulls eye rash - nope.
Posted 5/21/2016 5:00 PM (GMT 0)

Girlie said...


That is one of the reasons I keep 'passing by' lyme when I googled it.

fever - nope
fatigue - nope
flu like symptoms - nope
bulls eye rash - nope.

I did the exact same thing, more so because I didn't want it to be lyme.
Posted 5/21/2016 5:04 PM (GMT 0)
I SO wanted it to be lyme....I was desperate...needed a diagnosis...(and anything else that I read was worse in my opinion) - because it is treatable.
I did not want a fibromyalgia diagnosis...or Lupus. I wanted something that is treatable and hopefully something that once treated effectively...willl result in healing...
Posted 5/21/2016 5:16 PM (GMT 0)
Well I wasn't "desperate" enough at the time. It was only a few weeks of falling ill. So my brain wanted it to be something quicker and easier to treat and get over.

But too many dots were connecting. And when I didn't feel okay after the first very quick round of abx and doctors just shrugged their shoulders, then my attitude changed. And I "wanted" it to be lyme just like you.
Posted 5/21/2016 5:23 PM (GMT 0)
I had some wrist pain, also my jaw joint I have had some pain there, TMJ. But overall not a ton of debilitating joint pain, no swelling, etc.

I did have herx sensations in my knees, hips and ankles during treatment but whatever Borrelia was in there wasn't enough to cause any issues.

Most of my symptoms have been neuro. I think Lyme will just attack the weak points in the body and so can present completely differently in different people.

I did have a CDC positive test from Igenix.
Posted 5/21/2016 6:40 PM (GMT 0)
I'm right there with you all...

I was likely infected 18+ yrs ago, maybe even in childhood. Who knows. But I certainly didn't exhibit typical initial symptoms (other than one week-long bout of the flu immediately while in Salem, MA on business and spending an afternoon wandering around seeing the historical sites--upon returning to my hotel room I was hit like lightening with a week-long flu, which is when I think I was infected since I haven't had the flu in decades before or since).

Anyway, I stated having thyroid and GI problems, cognitive and neurotransmitter and adrenal problems... took 10 years to "evolve".

But then over a 13-month period of time I took 8-9 different abx MDs prescribed for chronic sinusitis and bronchitis. Of course, it wasn't a bacterial infection but a fungal infection--yeah, why bother culturing to find out what they're treating...

Anyway, it was in reaction to all those abx that I was hit like a mac truck with joint and muscle pain. Hips are the worst - but knees and fingers were bad too. I've also always had TMJ. My mom said they started after being hit in the side of the head with a ball. I don't know... There is no arthritis in my family.

-p
Posted 5/22/2016 1:07 AM (GMT 0)
Never had one symptom of joint pain. As they say everyone's symptoms are different.
Posted 5/22/2016 7:02 AM (GMT 0)
I don't,........... now.
Posted 5/22/2016 7:16 AM (GMT 0)
I've never had joint pain .. And I have no fatigue, no memory issues, and no brain fog ..

But I am now learning that if bartonella had a poster boy, I'd be it
Posted 5/22/2016 5:59 PM (GMT 0)
Many of us suffer from different physical ailments. IMO, that means we should have a different diagnosis. Yes, we may have the Lyme bacteria, but other influences are making us feel like we feel. It may not be a popular belief but I call them as I see them. My opinion is subject to change as I acquire additional information. Tommy08 is a great example. He stated he doesn't have the typical symptoms that many of us have. IMO, something else is causing his issues along with the bart he mentioned. He doesn't have any symptoms that I had. Bartonella wasn't discovered until the early 90's and it was found to be an opportunistic infection in AIDS patients. Does it cause us problems if that is all you have? I say it could, but the chances are low. Other things are causing us issues and when combined with something like bart or borrellia, the issues are magnified.
Posted 5/22/2016 6:35 PM (GMT 0)
GH - I think the bacteria - bart/lyme...etc...can be THE diagnosis - even with differing symptoms.
It all depends on what areas of the body it has disseminated to, and maybe gravitates toward our weak areas. We may not have all the three "B's" - but I do believe that they can cause differing symptoms for people.

This isn't the only disease that does this.

For instance...Celiac....some people have diarrhea...some have stomach pain...some have skin issues.

My son had neither of the above...but he had other symptoms...


Just my opinion. :-)
Posted 5/22/2016 9:52 PM (GMT 0)
No joint pain for me.
Posted 5/22/2016 10:10 PM (GMT 0)
Joint pain for me. First my knees (which were injured and a definite weak spot), my neck was next. Sounded like gravel in a ball bearing joint when I turned my head from side to side and it ached. Then once in awhile elbow, ankle and wrist. All much better but ibuprofen and ice were my best friends.
Posted 5/22/2016 10:13 PM (GMT 0)
With as many people as I have talked with over the years of being on this forum , reading the posts and trying to help out when I can, and with the tests being better interpreted as more information is discovered, it's been very obvious that different strains of Borrelia can cause different symptom sets. So just because we don't all share the same symptoms, we have to remember that there are over 100 different strains of Borrelia. If we use that as a guide, that means that there could be at least 100 different "symptom sets" - all for Borrelia.

This doesn't even take into consideration that we also have different 'co-infections', different "weak spots" in our bodies (not everyone will be hit as hard as I was with gastro and brain symptoms), and we have all had it differing lengths of time. That leaves a TON of room for differing symptoms.

Does this mean that I believe "everything is Lyme" - no, not at all. Those that I email with can attest that I always suggest that they get things checked out, to not assume "it's just Lyme", yet realize that may be "all it is" at the same time. This is a very hard thing to do with so few doctors and hospitals understanding anything of real value (as a whole) about these infections.

Can co-conditions be present? I think we all know they can be, but to assume that we (those that are here, looking for information for chronic Lyme) aren't all infected with Borrelia (Lyme), would be very wrong. Why?

We know that there is something going on, regular blood work can often (not always, since it depends on a functioning immune system) show us that our WBC is elevated, or our RBC count is down or some other thing.

We know the tests are very, very inadequate. We know that we have a very complex infection, that it's one of the most complex infections.

Not everyone may know that the bacteria can not only outsmart the immune system (which is still what most people end up with tests for) and can inhibit (lower) the immune function making testing positive that much more difficult, but:

* the Borrelia bacteria can also change it's outer surface proteins any time it deems necessary;

* plus they can easily signal (quorum sensing) other bacteria that they are being attacked and they will all go hide in biofilms, turn into a form that cannot be touched by any abx, and just hide out in joints and the brain where the immune system doesn't normally go.

So why do we all have differing symptoms? That's been a major question for years, but what I stated above are a few of the things we do know about this bacteria, and the illness that it causes. And we know that there is a LOT more we don't know about this bacteria yet.
Posted 5/23/2016 8:22 AM (GMT 0)
Girlie and Trav both make excellent points. The dissemination can certainly effect things and Trav's mention of multiple strains can change the symptoms the person is experiencing. Each strain would have varying degrees of susceptibility to treatment.

Girlie, I try to see things a step further in the cause and effect equation. If someone has borrelia and doesn't have any symptoms, why? Or conversely, if they have borrelia and have symptoms, why? What by products are produced that alter normal bodily functions or what is occurring in the body to cause the symptoms. Many times, it's the "other" things from borrelia that cause issues. Suppressing the immune response allows other pathogens to survive or allows for accumulation of metals. Metal testing is like Lyme testing, you just can't trust it. When I look at which systems in the body are breaking down and work my way back towards the cause, I usually see multiple issues. In every case, it's a detox issue. Some are expected as the toxic load would be too great for anyone's normal functioning, like taking Strychnine for example. Many on this forum who have gotten well have cleared their toxic load. Reducing pathogen load increases the toxic burden over the short term, but greatly improves functioning over time. The same goes for reducing metals in the body.

As an amateur anthropologist (minored in anthropology in college), I've studied primative cultures around the world and used those models to compare to the way of life for we Americans. Some of those cultures get bitten by vector borne disease carriers every day and while their parasitemia percentages and levels are higher, they don't experience the same problems we do. Every villager should have Lyme but they don't. Our environment and our food are different than theirs and must be the contributing factor. It a similar situation in China as the average age of menses onset is 17 over there. Different food plus different environment means different outcome.

When you study infectious disease, you learn about the virulence of pathogens. Some pathogens will cause an infection in most people because they are virulent. Others will not. That's the way these borrelia strains are. Most aren't that virulent (Plum Island variants not included), but they are still causing more and more people problems. That shouldn't be the case but it is. Our environment is allowing these strains to affect us when in the past, they haven't. That's just the way I see it.
Posted 5/23/2016 5:43 PM (GMT 0)
I got joint pain... But my B is all bartonella !

See here is the other thing... Different infections can cause similar symptoms and it can at times confuse people into thinking they have this or that.... Like Lyme is more notrious for causing joint pain... But also causes joint swelling. Bart is less often known for joint pain. But I thought it was Borrelia causing the joint pain, turns out it was Bart all along!
Posted 5/23/2016 10:13 PM (GMT 0)
No joint pain for me...brain fog all the way. Headaches, fatigue, neck and spinal pain, cracking shoulders, numbness.
Posted 5/23/2016 11:22 PM (GMT 0)
I didn't until yesterday.... It's funny I just started on antibiotics 4 days ago and i'm feeling some improvements but my knee started to act up now.
Posted 6/8/2016 1:35 AM (GMT 0)
I DOnt have swollen knees or ankles but I do get severe issues in my left hip particularly
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