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For those on herbs, how long until you felt improvements?

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Posted 5/30/2016 5:57 PM (GMT 0)
Buhner says you should start to feel improvements in a month or two, if I haven't does that mean I should stop? I wonder if that means only if you've reached a full dose.

For those treating with herbs how long was it till you felt improvements?
Posted 5/30/2016 6:15 PM (GMT 0)
I think he means with full dose. I would have to review my journal, but it was sly and slow and hardly noticeable that a symptom would disappear. So very sly that I would one day think to myself, gosh my sore throat feeling is gone and I don't remember when I had it last.

I absolutely hate telling my time line because I am always afraid that someone will use it as their guide. We are not identical. I don't want my timeline to make someone feel like it is not working for them. How long does your cold last??? If I say that my cold only lasted 3 days how you would you feel on day 7 of your cold? See what I mean. We all heal differently and at a different pace.

Genetics, diet, detoxing, stress factors, sleep patterns, and so many other things determine our healing process. It is not just the herbs. It is a combination of everything.

If you have only been on a month or two, do not give up! Post to your journal and write things down. I bet someday you will have a symptom drop off your list.

Keep on herbin.
Posted 5/30/2016 6:20 PM (GMT 0)
It's once you reach an effective dose - not all people can take a "full dose", but when a person has reached the level they can with each herb, then you start the 'count'.

For me with Lyme, it was in my second month (about 5 weeks after reaching full doses), I knew I was going to survive - by the third month I was begging to start Bart treatments, and we did. Two months on full doses of that and I was hoping to start Babs treatments, but my doc didn't think my body would handle it very well, and the herbs that she was going to have me use couldn't be taken with the other things I was already on, so I waited.

I was very lucky to find the herbal treatment that worked (and worked well) for me the first time.
Posted 5/30/2016 6:36 PM (GMT 0)
Excellent point Traveler! Full dose for me is not the full dose for everyone and vice versa.

Full does is individual. Thanks Traveler for catching that.
Posted 5/30/2016 6:43 PM (GMT 0)
:-) I just don't believe that every person can remember every detail of all of this information each and every time we post. I like team work!! smilewinkgrin
Posted 5/30/2016 7:04 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks for your responses PeteZa and Trav, I understand that everyone is different and that you sort of need to take a unique approach, tailored to you, I just wish I knew what that means for me. It is encouraging to hear of your successes.

I feel like since I have started herbals some of my symptoms have lessened but others are coming out, I feel like I am dealing with bartonella symptoms now, shin and knee pain. Whereas my pains used to be all over my body. I also have sound and light sensitivity. And I have had the scratch rash show up twice.

When you treat lyme do confection symptoms tend to move to the forefront?

I'm going to keep on keeping on with all of it. Looking for a good herbal cyst buster then move on to herbal Bartonella Treatment.
Posted 5/30/2016 7:22 PM (GMT 0)
Remember, these infections and treating them is like peeling an onion - there are layers to them. When you get one layer peeled back, you will find another layer that needs attention, and then another layer - but you have to reach the center of the onion at some point, so there is an end to this treatment as well. But not until you have managed to get through all of your own 'layers'.

Celebrate every little improvement!! You can just post about it on here if that's all you wish to do! But they are proof of your improvements and can be used to keep your spirits up!

Yes, as you treat your infections, you will notice more and more symptoms of the infections that haven't been treated sufficiently. The infection with the highest bacterial load will always have the most or the most severe symptoms, once the bacterial load is lowered though, the other infections will eventually have a higher load on your body.
Posted 5/30/2016 7:33 PM (GMT 0)
i treated babesia for a year and i still couldn't beat it back, only slightly. that was back in january so now i'm treating bartonella for 4 months and its gotten worse. you see everyone is different no one can tell you when you should feel better, worse, or if something isn't working. this is why you need to keep a meticulous journal and work with a professional.
Posted 5/30/2016 8:57 PM (GMT 0)

Rikky1 said...
this is why you need to keep a meticulous journal and work with a professional.

You can be your own professional when it comes to treating lyme and co herbally.

I really don't know how many more times I'm going to see my LLMD going forward. I've educated myself (and continue to do so) and I'm ditching the abx approach, which is limited and often unsuccessful. Don't really need an expensive prescription writer anymore.

I believe everyone can do this without a professional (if properly self-educated and continue to learn everyday).
Posted 5/30/2016 9:02 PM (GMT 0)
I think in the beginning of treatment - before we educate ourselves...it can be difficult guiding your own treatment. And..that is why this forum is great - lots of knowledge here.


I don't advocate people self - treat - especially with antibiotics...but sometimes we have to...especially when we get to the point that we know more than the Dr. that is treating us.
Sometimes, there isn't the funds for a Dr. and treating ourselves herbally is the only option we have.
Posted 5/30/2016 9:11 PM (GMT 0)

Girlie said...

and treating ourselves herbally is the only option we have.

I personally feel it's THE option. I personally would go as far as to say it should be the "only" option ideally.

Abx, destroys gut health, which makes lyme and co worst and causes a plethora of other problems. It weakens the immune system directly and indirectly, which doesn't help overcoming lyme and co whatsoever. It's hard on the liver. And it's limited because it only can be effective if lyme and co is in the blood stream AND is not in cyst/biofilm form. Once again very limited.

Herbs actually do the exact opposite of everything I described above.
Posted 5/30/2016 9:14 PM (GMT 0)
Well I agree with all of you and I will say that I wish I could have a physician to guide me through this but there is such limited options in my area and I can't afford it. So I have to learn it myself. So thankful for this forum
Posted 5/30/2016 9:19 PM (GMT 0)
Evianangel when antibiotics made me sick I switched and had no one to guide me professionally. I had options but they were so far away = time and $$.

I opted to do it myself but I could have never done it without our mod CD to guide me. She was my go-to guru and I would not be where I am today without her.

I love this forum.
Posted 5/30/2016 9:25 PM (GMT 0)
Evianangel, have you checked out Buhner's herbalists yet? I don't know what they charge, but it might be worth looking into.
buhnerhealinglyme.com/resources/herbalists/
Posted 5/30/2016 9:34 PM (GMT 0)

dacarte3 said...

Girlie said...

and treating ourselves herbally is the only option we have.

I personally feel it's THE option. I personally would go as far as to say it should be the "only" option ideally.

Abx, destroys gut health, which makes lyme and co worst and causes a plethora of other problems. It weakens the immune system directly and indirectly, which doesn't help overcoming lyme and co whatsoever. It's hard on the liver. And it's limited because it only can be effective if lyme and co is in the blood stream AND is not in cyst/biofilm form. Once again very limited.

Herbs actually do the exact opposite of everything I described above.


...and then there are people who say that antibiotics are the only way option.


I know people who have healed with antibiotics...and people who have healed on herbs...and people who have healed doing both.
(When I say 'i know' people - that includes forum members, and other people I have emailed with in the past few years)

I think there is no 'right way' - antibiotics or herbs. It's an individual decision.
Posted 5/30/2016 9:44 PM (GMT 0)
"I know people who have healed with antibiotics...."

I'm curious to know at what cost. But with the lack of lyme and co research and studies of all kinds it's hard to know.
Posted 5/30/2016 10:40 PM (GMT 0)

dacarte3 said...
"I know people who have healed with antibiotics...."

I'm curious to know at what cost. But with the lack of lyme and co research and studies of all kinds it's hard to know.

Well, they are doing well - years later.

One is a patient of my GP.

dacarte3 - we don't want to discourage anyone who has chosen the antibiotic route, as it is an acceptable treatment. My LLND has healed many - and even though he is a ND...he really does focus on antibiotics as the primary treatment, with some herbs sprinkled in here and there.
If you told him you only wanted to treat herbal, I'm sure he would be fine with that.
Posted 5/30/2016 11:12 PM (GMT 0)
I love my herbs, but I will not tout my way as the best or only way.

What if I am wrong and someone could have gotten well with antibiotics right off the bat? I would feel horrible for insinuating that herbs were the only way and they suffered months of treatment on herbs.

We are not all alike and I do not want to make decisions for anyone else's life or health care. I am not qualified.
Posted 5/30/2016 11:18 PM (GMT 0)
Yes I agree PeteZa and girlie. Antibiotics made my stomach sick almost immediately. However they do work for some people, and I've talked to quite a few that have used them or a combination of herbs and antibiotics.

Right now I'm in a scary stage where I'm not sure anything will work but I just am trying to stay positive. I'm going for my first infarad sauna tomorrow. They have one at a tanning salon near my house. The lady said it's an hour long in 55 degree heat, Celsius. Not looking forward to it. But I'm trying to ramp up detoxing.

I'm a functioning lymie, i don't have to stay bedridden but my symptoms are a constant reminder that I'm not well enough to enjoy life as I used to. It is hard to imagine the rest of my life like this.
Posted 5/30/2016 11:31 PM (GMT 0)
let me posit why i think some people absolutely have to work with a professional even at high cost. take me for example. i'm pretty educated on this stuff over the last 2 years. the challenge still for me is when you have multiple infections and other things like non-normal symptoms for a bug in particular, overlapping synergistic symptoms and lack of recognizable patterns to name a few, these things can make it very difficult to know what you're treating, how you're making progress and how long to treat what and when.

for example my babesia in which i treated over a year could be hanging around because i have to get rid of another infection first. my symptoms are definitely not specific to any particular bug except for the pins and needles in the soles of my feet. everything else you cannot draw a clear line. i had the same problem with taking antibiotics i'd have all sorts of reactions.

anyways my point is its up to the individual on what best works for them. i hate antibiotics and have been taking them for over a year and i'd love to stop but the way i feel off them is pretty bad.
Posted 5/30/2016 11:34 PM (GMT 0)
>>I'm a functioning lymie, i don't have to stay bedridden but my symptoms are a constant reminder that I'm not well enough to enjoy life as I used to. It is hard to imagine the rest of my life like this.

Bingo. That is exactly how pretty much all of us feel and its the hardest psychological thing to grapple with on a minute, hour and day by day basis. Remember though when there's nothing left there's always hope for a better tomorrow.
Posted 5/31/2016 12:00 AM (GMT 0)
I was still herxing after 4 months of initiating his bartonella protocol (in April 2013) and that was at very low doses. I found cycling that summer to be very painful (thigh muscles, fatigue). It wasn't until perhaps that fall that I realized that my feet didn't hurt every morning, that my depression had lifted, and that my exercise intolerance had resolved.

As PeteZa said, it was gradual.
Posted 5/31/2016 12:14 AM (GMT 0)
Oh and thanks Traveler I'm going to check out that link, I'd love to get under the guidance of a herbalist.

Rikky- yes you are right, when we feel like we are at the bottom of the barrell there is nothing else we can do but keep fighting.

Rowingmom- do you think exercise helped you regain your health? How much did you do each say?

I often feel better after I've gone out for a walk or something. But I sure miss working out at the gym and running, I don't know of I'd be able to do it. I could try I suppose.
Posted 5/31/2016 12:30 AM (GMT 0)
"let me posit why i think some people absolutely have to work with a professional even at high cost. take me for example. i'm pretty educated on this stuff over the last 2 years. the challenge still for me is when you have multiple infections and other things like non-normal symptoms for a bug in particular, overlapping synergistic symptoms and lack of recognizable patterns to name a few, these things can make it very difficult to know what you're treating, how you're making progress and how long to treat what and when."

The thing is - it wasn't until I got educated that I realized that my Dr. had spent too much time treating me with lyme only meds. (9 1/2 months). It was only then that he switched my treatment to bart....as I emphasized my bart symptoms during an appt. I don't know how long he had planned to keep me only treating lyme...but I wasn't willing to wait any longer.
So, even with a professional, we still should educate ourselves as much as possible...we know our bodies...we know how we're feeling...and if something's not right.
Posted 5/31/2016 3:56 PM (GMT 0)
>>So, even with a professional, we still should educate ourselves as much as possible...we know our bodies...we know how we're feeling...and if something's not right.

well said and 1000% true!
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