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2015 Buhner Protocol vs 2005 Buhner Protocol - Can you help me?

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Posted 6/10/2016 5:28 PM (GMT 0)
Hi everyone,

I have saved up to purchase the Buhner Protocol herbs, however, I have some questions. I own both of his books, the 2005 and 2015 editions. I am very confused as to what the core protocol is for the 2015 updates. The layout of his new book is very confusing as there is like 50 different herbs mentioned in it. Does anybody have the 2015 core protocol outlined in a way that is understandable? I really want to start treating this and getting healthy.

Thank you so much!

-Mav
Posted 6/10/2016 5:32 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Maverick,

The core protocol is listed on page 214.

If you have specific symptoms listed on pages 216-239, you can try adding in some of those herbs to the core protocol.
Posted 6/10/2016 5:34 PM (GMT 0)
So there are now 6 herbs in the core protocol vs 4 in the previous protocol?
Posted 6/10/2016 5:38 PM (GMT 0)
No, there's six sections of the core protocol:
1.) Endothelial protection
2.) Cytokine remodulation
3.) Collagen protection
4.) Immune remodulation
5.) Antispirochetal
6.) Neuroborreliosis

Each of these sections has one or more herbs listed. For instance, Polygonum cuspidatum (Japanese Knotweed) is the only herb under endothelial protection.

But there are 5 herbs for immune remodulation.

etc.

Buhner says you should experiment and add/subtract from all these to make your own personalized program if you want.
Posted 6/10/2016 5:40 PM (GMT 0)
Oh wow, this is why I was so confused haha I could not understand why there were like 50 different herbs. It's kind of confusing to understand the new layout. I'll reread that entire section to see if I can have it make more sense.
Posted 6/10/2016 5:45 PM (GMT 0)
Ya read it slowly and multiple times. My book just opens to that page by itself at this point since I've spent so much time looking at it/doubling checking dosages.

But ya, everything you need is on 214-215 (should be about a dozen herbs on those pages), with additional stuff if you want on the following pages.

Good luck, and add them in slowly!
Posted 6/10/2016 5:49 PM (GMT 0)
So are you saying I should ONLY start with step 1: adding the Japanese Knotweed? Does each phase build upon the stage before it? How long do I stay in step 1? Thanks for your help! I think hearing another explanation will help me understand the protocol more while reading it.

Thanks for your help!
Posted 6/10/2016 6:17 PM (GMT 0)
Maverick - you will want to add in one herb at a time...they can be powerful and induce a herx.

So, yes add in JK...and start at a low dose...and increase it very slowly over a few weeks.

When you're at a low dose and tolerating it well...say 2 or 3 drops 3X daily, then choose the next herb to add in.

You will want to get a core group of herbs in at low dose...they work synergistically.

After the core group are in at low dose...then you can start increasing...one at a time.

At any time you herx.,..you can go back to previous dose of that herb...and hold for awhile...then try to increase again.
Posted 6/10/2016 6:21 PM (GMT 0)
Edit: well Girlie beat me to the punch :p

Yes, add one herb at a time. That way if have a bad reaction to it, you know which herb is causing it and you can dial it back a bit before trying to increase it again. If you add them all and feel crappy, well then you really have no idea what's causing what.

Also, don't start a herb at the recommended dosage in the book. Start small, like 1/8 to 1/4 of what the book dosage is, and work your way up to the recommended dosage slowly.

I don't think they are listed in the book in any particular order though, as far as which to start and in which order.

Here's what the most popular idea seems to be:

Add the 3 main herbs from the old core protocol. Meaning start Polygonum cuspidatum (Japanese Knotweed), then add Uncaria tomentosa (Cat's Claw), then add Eleutherococcus senticosus (Eleuthero).

After you have these 3 herbs going, now start adding other core herbs if you want, again one at a time.
Posted 6/10/2016 6:22 PM (GMT 0)
Don't forget to detox, detox, detox! smilewinkgrin
Posted 6/10/2016 6:33 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks for the responses! Do you recommend the capsules, the powder, or the tinctures to be most effective?
Posted 6/10/2016 6:53 PM (GMT 0)
That's a personal choice.

i started with capsules - JK, CC and later on switched over to tinctures.
The amount of capsules you have to swallow - gets to be a bit much - especially when you get up to the optimal dose...and I already have throat issues.

I like the tinctures because I can put them all in 1/4 glass of warm water....leave them sit for a bit to allow the alcohol to dissipate and down the hatch....so much easier.

I can't comment on the powder - haven't done that route.
Posted 6/10/2016 6:56 PM (GMT 0)
I'm doing powders. The reason I chose powder was because I didn't want alcohol interacting with my antibiotics. The powders are also much cheaper than any other option.

The only issue I've had, which I mentioned in another thread the other day, is that the Japanese Knotween powder is really bad tasting. If you're not on any specific diet, I suppose you could mix with juice instead of water to ease the flavor.

I just plug my nose and down it.
Posted 6/10/2016 7:11 PM (GMT 0)
Well, I just ordered 2 bottles of JK from Green Dragon (per Buhner's recommendation). There's a 7-10 day delay on shipping so I'll bide my time until then. Then I will start! Do you recommend 1 capsule once per day and work my way up or should I do 1 capsule twice per day or how would you recommend starting?
Posted 6/10/2016 7:37 PM (GMT 0)
only one capsule once a day...and hold for 3-5 days ..before doing one twice daily.
Posted 6/10/2016 8:43 PM (GMT 0)
What are some of the problems you've had when you started treating your Lyme?
Posted 6/10/2016 9:13 PM (GMT 0)

Maverick6981 said...
What are some of the problems you've had when you started treating your Lyme?

one word HERX. On day 4 of doxycycline (my first antibiotic treatment for lyme) - I was hit hard with back pain. I think I suffered for 12 days before I posted about it...and I think it was Traveler who said to back down on my dose...or even stop plus ramp up my detoxing. It worked. The back pain didn't go away...but the severity lessened.


So, while you're waiting for the shipment...start building on your detox routine.
You will want to do multiple methods...daily.
Posted 6/10/2016 9:22 PM (GMT 0)

Girlie said...
So, while you're waiting for the shipment...start building on your detox routine.
You will want to do multiple methods...daily.

Thanks Girlie. I'm really excited to finally have found something that seems promising. I think because I caught my Lyme right away that my symptoms has been relatively mild. I've been dealing with:
1. Blurry vision
2. Brain fog
3. Depersonalization/derealization
4. Low energy levels
5. Low motivation
6. Can't retain information well
7. Memory problems

All of these are at I'd say a 5/10 except for my vision problems which would be a 7. I've been dealing with this for 3 years (come July). I really think I can come out of this a normal person. I'm hoping I don't have too many coinfections. One more question, when you start to heal, will you have flair ups of co-infections?
Posted 6/10/2016 9:37 PM (GMT 0)
Yes, often treating lyme will bring the co-infection symptoms to the forefront...you may get new symptoms as you continue to treat.
This is often how we determine which co-infection(s) we have.

My LLND treated me solely for lyme too long. 9 1/2 months, and we thought bartonella was my dominant infection.. In my opinion, after 3-4 months, bartonella antibiotics should have been added in. I had plateaued in my improvement awhile before the 9 1/2 months.
Posted 6/10/2016 11:04 PM (GMT 0)
This is the Buhner core protocol that I used. BUT... I have heart involvement so I started with Hawthorn and Motherwort to get those under control and then did the rest in order.

1. Protecting endothelial structures (pg 214) - Polygonum cuspidatum (Hu Zhang or Japanese Knotweed)

2. Cytokine remodulation (pg 214) - Salvia miltiorrhiza (Red Sage) and Scutellaria baicalensis (Skullcap or Huang Qin)

3. Collagen protection (pg 214) - Great lakes gelatin, Vit C, Selenium, etc

4. Immune remodulation (pg 215) - Unicaria tomentosa (Cat's Claw), Cordyceps mycelium (a mushroom), withania somnifera (ashwagandha), Eleutherococcus senticosus, Glycyrrhiza (licorice)

5. Antispirochetal (pg 215) - Andrographis



I did not do the ashwagandha because I had no sleep issues and I did not do the Eleutherococcus because it gave me heart problems and I never attempted the glycyrrhiza because it can cause high blood pressure in people susceptible (that would be me).

I love Buhner. I started in September 2015 and did it religiously 3 times a day and by March 2016 I was feeling great and 100%.

However I am a great detoxer, I eat extremely healthy and I sleep really well (normal routine bedtime). Oh and my stress is minimal.
Posted 6/10/2016 11:57 PM (GMT 0)

PeteZa said...
This is the Buhner core protocol that I used. BUT... I have heart involvement so I started with Hawthorn and Motherwort to get those under control and then did the rest in order.

1. Protecting endothelial structures (pg 214) - Polygonum cuspidatum (Hu Zhang or Japanese Knotweed)

2. Cytokine remodulation (pg 214) - Salvia miltiorrhiza (Red Sage) and Scutellaria baicalensis (Skullcap or Huang Qin)

3. Collagen protection (pg 214) - Great lakes gelatin, Vit C, Selenium, etc

4. Immune remodulation (pg 215) - Unicaria tomentosa (Cat's Claw), Cordyceps mycelium (a mushroom), withania somnifera (ashwagandha), Eleutherococcus senticosus, Glycyrrhiza (licorice)

5. Antispirochetal (pg 215) - Andrographis



I did not do the ashwagandha because I had no sleep issues and I did not do the Eleutherococcus because it gave me heart problems and I never attempted the glycyrrhiza because it can cause high blood pressure in people susceptible (that would be me).

I love Buhner. I started in September 2015 and did it religiously 3 times a day and by March 2016 I was feeling great and 100%.

However I am a great detoxer, I eat extremely healthy and I sleep really well (normal routine bedtime). Oh and my stress is minimal.

Thank you so much for this! I can't wait till my Japanese Knotweed gets in the mail. It's going to be a long few weeks as I wait for Green Dragon Botanicals' new harvest to get in :(
Posted 6/11/2016 12:06 AM (GMT 0)
while you are waiting you can detox - I'm sure you have heard this. lol

Good vegetables and go through recipes to find yummy nutritious things to eat.

I love this collagen -- www.proteinessentials.com/#!protein-essentials-home-page-1/phm1s/!/Peptan%C2%AE-Hydrolyzed-Collagen%E2%80%93Unflavored-2-LB-BAG/p/62054897/category=0

It will mix with anything and does not taste.

A good multiple vitamin is awesome.

And I love this mushroom combo and had no adjustment to it at all -- www.hostdefense.com/mycommunity

It will fulfill No. 4 in the core protocol with the cordyceps! Easy to take and no herx at all from it.
Posted 6/11/2016 5:40 PM (GMT 0)
@Pete: Which kind of heart problems do you have from Lyme and which kind of problems did you get from Eleutherococcus ?
Posted 6/11/2016 7:33 PM (GMT 0)
Markus I started with a rapid resting pulse. I would be sitting watching tv and I could feel my pulse throughout my whole body. I started Hawthorn and then did Motherwort. I was concerned for my heart. My dad died of a heart attack at age 35 so that is always in the back of my mind. Both of those seemed to calm my heart down. Then I did Japanese Knotweed and was fine. I tried to add eleuthero and my heart tached very high - scary high 110 resting pulse. I stopped doing it and mellowed out. I then tried to add sida acuta and my heart began to flutter. I stopped it. So I tried Cryptolepis and was fine. Then Houtt, fine. Then Andrographis, fine.
Posted 6/12/2016 6:37 PM (GMT 0)

PeteZa said...
Markus I started with a rapid resting pulse. I would be sitting watching tv and I could feel my pulse throughout my whole body. I started Hawthorn and then did Motherwort. I was concerned for my heart. My dad died of a heart attack at age 35 so that is always in the back of my mind. Both of those seemed to calm my heart down. Then I did Japanese Knotweed and was fine. I tried to add eleuthero and my heart tached very high - scary high 110 resting pulse. I stopped doing it and mellowed out. I then tried to add sida acuta and my heart began to flutter. I stopped it. So I tried Cryptolepis and was fine. Then Houtt, fine. Then Andrographis, fine.

PeteZa did you start with the hawthorn at full dose? I know it can lower blood pressure and I don't need that.
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