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success with Buhner without andrographis?

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Posted 9/29/2016 11:52 PM (GMT 0)
The most odd & surprising thing with allthis, is I am hypersensitive to ANY medication. I am 67 years old and the norm for me is to take 1/3 to 1/2 of any prescription and I am sick as a dog. All my life. Except after the 6 spine fusions and Mastectomy. THAT changed EVERYTHING and there was no dose of Fentanyl that helped enough. But that is the exception. I started herbs so scared and SO cautious but was scared to death. Now I wish I had the money to have herb contents analyzes. Do NOT mean to sound sceptical. I just wonder sometimes how much fraud there is in this business? Too many years working for Los Angeles Police dept maybe? If nothing else, someone ought to be arrested for the taste of this stuff! :-)
Posted 9/29/2016 11:59 PM (GMT 0)
So, Mike - is your dizziness worse or a new 'issue' - since taking the herbs?


I don't believe that the herbs are 'snake oil'.

Many people have used these herbs and healed.

I agree - with the horrible taste, though!
Posted 9/30/2016 12:44 AM (GMT 0)

Girlie said...
So, Mike - is your dizziness worse or a new 'issue' - since taking the herbs?

I don't believe that the herbs are 'snake oil'. =



Many people have used these herbs and healed.

I agree - with the horrible taste, though!



Yea we ALL hate it!

I have met many as well and still believe in it over any other option

No it was out of the blue. Went to bed a bit dizzy after my BIG increase yesterday. I bumped dose from 1/2 protocol to 2/3 for only 1 day, yesterday. Today bumped to FULL 100% except for andrographis which will take me till monday or so to get to 100% I think? It is in pill form from Amazon however at 300 mg a pill (tablet and NASTY!).

I do NOT either but see amazing potential for fraud,

Yea we ALL hate it
Posted 9/30/2016 12:51 AM (GMT 0)
The JK is the most horrible one.
I thought about the herb validity myself....I have to say...I am so skeptical of so much ....I do not believe a thing.
Posted 9/30/2016 12:57 AM (GMT 0)
andrographis is the one that actually kills the spirochetes...right?
Posted 9/30/2016 1:02 AM (GMT 0)

artermix said...
The JK is the most horrible one.
I thought about the herb validity myself....I have to say...I am so skeptical of so much ....I do not believe a thing.

I believe herbs work 100%. Just not for me YET. I hope to God they will but too soon maybe? I just am born to worry which is why I had an ulcer at 12, bleeding ulcer at 15. LOVE to worry. It is this or NOTHING for me so it HAS to work. Never would have spent so much money on it OR my time here if I didn't hope for the best. But years on police departments make me very shy about what is REALLY in these bottles of an unregulated industry. At some point it is about trust & faith. Short supply of it on my end but till proben otherwise, I am sticking like glue. Very GOOD people here led me to where I am and I actually already love a few like family. And I know it ain't the beer cuz I had to hive it up! turn turn turn turn
Posted 9/30/2016 1:05 AM (GMT 0)

artermix said...
andrographis is the one that actually kills the spirochetes...right?

Hope so cuz it's killin ME...hopefully one of the veterans who know something will tell us both. And like a dummy, I didn't start that at all till 4 days ago as I went with the Eulothero instead. Now on all 4.
Posted 9/30/2016 1:14 AM (GMT 0)
Well I have been on Eulethero since August....
I think at this point I need way more than a herb that boost my immune. I am still taking it because the fatigue is lingering.
I feel these "things" are spreading more and not slowing down with the herbs. But then again it felt same way with the abx...Right now probably few round of IV rocephin would greatly help because I sense that they are in their birth cycle of reproducing. So all other times are pretty dormant this is why I am able to function the way I am.

I am also taking cat's claw, Japanese knotweed for 2 months and Uncaria Rhynchipilla for 1 month.
Posted 9/30/2016 1:23 AM (GMT 0)
Andrographis is supposed to be the best antispirochetal herb at this point. Buhner has a chapter on it pag 372. chapter 15.
I hope I do not get that infamous rash....it helps with a lot of other tropical diseases like malaria and legionnaire (not tropical)....list is long. It also crosses bbb....which is exactly what I want but not as good as Uncaria Rhynchiphilla aka Gou Teng....that I have been using to help me with my neurological lyme. It seem my lyme headquarters ....no pun intended is in my head....ha ha ha.....
the other areas are branches of lazy spirochetes.....
Posted 9/30/2016 2:01 AM (GMT 0)
Well I had Malaria in Viet Nam (along with everything else) and am SO pissed I missed the point of taking Andrographis. I mistakenly thought I was supposed to take either OR between it ot the Eleuthero. BIG mistake... So here I am, missed the oh so important first month and I am beyond desperate as I watch mysself go from crippled to nearly bedridden. Anyway, high hopes for better days ahead. For you, I and ALL of us. So many good people here giving so much of themselves and in the same boat. Like being back in the Marine corps without a flak jacket.
Posted 9/30/2016 2:13 AM (GMT 0)
Well Buhner has a basic lyme protocol and an extended one. I think there is no one protocol for all but what works best for one person.
I think what makes the protocol work best is the type of BB one has along with how it effects your body.
At one point I had people telling me I should surely try teasel root ...even Naturopath Dr and even went to a lecture of a dr who used it successfully ......but thing is teasel works best with people who have Borrelia more in their cartilage and joints. I did try it for 45 days....did not do a thing to me...no herx no nothing....I first tried the drop system. One drop at the time...than I was like .....**** that **** I am using a full vial of it....still nothing. I think if a herb is taking in large doses and you have no effects in herx....not so sure if it is the medicinal for you. I do not know enough to understand this.
I know with synthetic medicine you should only take with pain ...you know it works because the pain goes away....but with herbs is not so.

I think this is why Lyme is challenging to treat. first and foremost they do not have researched systematically all strains of lyme....you might have one nobody knows about. Second you might have a strain different than some else....or that strains has adapted to your body environment in such way that antibiotic given to you is going to effects you different than antibiotic given to another.
I think that this is a limitation that our MD and LLMD have in treating lyme. This is why so many people have to do trials of abx and it is hit or miss.

Post Edited (artermix) : 9/29/2016 8:18:33 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 9/30/2016 3:49 AM (GMT 0)

artermix said...

I know with synthetic medicine you should only take with pain ...you know it works because the pain goes away....but with herbs is not so.

I'm not sure what you mean by this statement? Synthetic medicine - are you talking about antibiotics in particular?

You take antibiotics for lyme and co-infections to treat all symptoms...not just pain. The symptom resolution is a result of the bacterial load being knocked down, along with the taming of the cytokine cascade (detoxing)

Herbal protocols will have the same results - once the bacterial load is knocked down (from antimicrobial effects of herbs, along with boosting immune system, etc.) if pain is a symptom, it will be lessened/alleviated.
Posted 9/30/2016 3:54 AM (GMT 0)
I was talking about things like ibuprofen or acetaminophen.....
Posted 9/30/2016 4:11 AM (GMT 0)
okay - I see.

Well there are herbals that help with pain, too.

Ibuprofen and acetaminophen don't always work, either.


Curcumin and boswelia help with inflammation and that can reduce pain.

Omega 3 from fish oil is supposed to be effective.

topically - there is Capsaicin.
Posted 9/30/2016 4:25 AM (GMT 0)
I don't disagree...as most of those Over The Counter have not helped me at all with my pain for 2 days....And even took 2 Rx today.... But generally speaking I was talking about the way, us modern people perceive pain and want to get rid of it.
I use Curcumin extensively along with Ginger, and a lot of it. While they alleviate it and they are excellent for pain management and make pain more tolerable...they do not knock it out like synthetic medicines.
Posted 9/30/2016 5:10 AM (GMT 0)
Smilax is also antispirochete ...as is teasel there is a great thread wakeup has on ln...
mike ummm i dont think malaria goes away...like ever ..maybe you should add some artminisin or crypolepsis, sida acuta ,alchorea? Some believe in mms but that probably too taboo for your flak jacket

here is thread
http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=132608;p=0&r=actu
Posted 9/30/2016 5:35 AM (GMT 0)
Read about MMS yesterday when searching for what your Rife comments meant. Also Ozone which I think I liked best as I am somewhat familiar with it. But darn it, my press broke so I can't print up the thousands of dollars I need yet. In the end I suspect IF I turned out to be a good candidate who responds well to ozone, it would essentially be far cheaper than all these herbs & supplements. The mms doesn't freak me at all since I am likely too much of a go in guns blazing kind of guy. Maybe why I got blown up 4 times in the war too though.
Posted 9/30/2016 5:52 AM (GMT 0)
I like your style mike ...a little ozone machine is a few bills ..and sufflation is supposda be effective also ..(the crap we do).mms is 20$ i think it works on biofilms but can be hard on tummy ...
Posted 9/30/2016 1:09 PM (GMT 0)
What good is my tummy without my legs? Will be shopping for that soon but need to find a place to trust.


On an ozone machine. I would not be able to do it to my blood with that however correct? I mean, how could I rig an IV to clean the blood at home? Maybe I don't need to? MY thoughts are that I NEED to have the IV to flush my blood to kill my little wiggly buddies IN the blood. Besides,I wanna kick their ass! Payback is a ***** and I need payback.

Post Edited (lucynethel (OR Just Mike)) : 9/30/2016 7:15:01 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 9/30/2016 2:38 PM (GMT 0)
My grandpa was a WWII survivor....had malaria too....his boat sunk twice and one of the 2 times he was the only survivor.
My grandpa was crazy...either by genetics or by experience. Life can make us crazy.
I think people who fought the wars are amazing. I got inspired so many times when running marathons by cycle division athletes who were pushing hard (because without legs) on a hill, on their way toward the finish line. I would stick with them for few miles ....and talk to them.... I am sure some wanted to get away from me....ha ha ha.....

So...sir ...you got all my respect.
Posted 9/30/2016 3:01 PM (GMT 0)
1. Protecting endothelial structures (pg 214) - Polygonum cuspidatum (Hu Zhang or Japanese Knotweed)

2. Cytokine remodulation (pg 214) - Salvia miltiorrhiza (Red Sage or pinyin: dānshēn) and Scutellaria baicalensis (Skullcap or Huang Qin)

3. Collagen protection (pg 214) - Great lakes gelatin, Vit C, Selenium, etc - My personal recommendation for collagen is Protein Essentials Hydrolyzed Collagen.

4. Immune remodulation (pg 215) - Unicaria tomentosa (Cat's Claw), Cordyceps mycelium (a mushroom), withania somnifera (ashwagandha), Eleutherococcus senticosus, Glycyrrhiza (licorice)

5. Antispirochetal (pg 215) - Andrographis


Step one: Stop the inflammation brought about by BB, breaking down the collagen throughout the body.
Step two: Support the formation and strength of collagen.
Step three: Design specific herbal interventions for the unique symptom picture of the person.
Step four: Strengthen the immune function.
And only in step five, use herbal anti-spirchetals to control the infection.

On step three: Design specific herbal interventions for the unique symptom picture of the person. -- this is where you address the most horrible symptom you have. If it is racing heart you would try for some heart healthy herbs (Hawthorn, motherwort, etc). If it is lymph, at this time you would address that (try Red Root). This is why Buhner's books are important.

I had great success following Buhner's ways. I did not try and reinvent all the work he had done. I stuck to his ways.

However, I also listened to my body and when something was not agreeable, I put it aside and moved on. I always knew I could come back later and try it again.

I detoxed like my life depended on it.
*********

The above is why I love Buhner's book versus his website. It is way more complete and explanatory.
Posted 9/30/2016 3:18 PM (GMT 0)
THANK you for this! THIS will be my Bible. Not sure if this was for me or "US" but is EXACTLY what I am looking for and spent 4 hours looking on how to address the collagen issue.NOW I know. Today, my day #2 on FULL Buhrner Protocol I am high as a kite so maybe I have "liftoff"? :-)

Have a dumb question for anyone. I just got my $165.00 order of tinctures that I now realize will only last a couple weeks at full dose (I now, I BLEW it). Valerie at Sage says I will save by going to powders but NO idea how much to buy? To save shipping I want to buy 1 POUND of each so 16 ounces to a pound ( I think?) and I need to know how many doses you get from a pound (roughly?) if anyone knows? Her prices are as follows so this is a big hit for me financially after what I just bought PLUS just got the bill for my CT Angiogram at $16K yesterday! Here is the price if I order 1 pound each, and trying to determine if 1 pound each of the 3 herbs is enough?

Andro and J. knotweed are $3 per ounce and the cat’s claw is $2.70 per ounce. So I am guessing about $160.00 shipped but is this enough for a month?

I want to save all the shipping/handling fees if possible and I also need to buy a pill machine ONLY for the Andrographis cuz Mr Buhner SWEARS to me that there is no way I can handle drinking it no matter HOW strong I think I am. So need to find out what SIZE machine and capsul blanks I need so I don't choke. After surgery on my throat with neck (and back) fusions, I have really tough times swallowing. This is why I drink my meds if possible or I choke BADLY. Anyone know if 1 pound will last a whole month? And PetZa, THANK you! I am printing this out and will put it in my box with herbs since if all days have me THIS high I have real problems ahead:-) This is SO perfect and has every single thing I needed to know all condensed in one tiny spot. Like you were reading my mind I swear.
Mike

PeteZa said...
1. Protecting endothelial structures (pg 214) - Polygonum cuspidatum (Hu Zhang or Japanese Knotweed)

2. Cytokine remodulation (pg 214) - Salvia miltiorrhiza (Red Sage or pinyin: dānshēn) and Scutellaria baicalensis (Skullcap or Huang Qin)

3. Collagen protection (pg 214) - Great lakes gelatin, Vit C, Selenium, etc - My personal recommendation for collagen is Protein Essentials Hydrolyzed Collagen.

4. Immune remodulation (pg 215) - Unicaria tomentosa (Cat's Claw), Cordyceps mycelium (a mushroom), withania somnifera (ashwagandha), Eleutherococcus senticosus, Glycyrrhiza (licorice)

5. Antispirochetal (pg 215) - Andrographis


Step one: Stop the inflammation brought about by BB, breaking down the collagen throughout the body.
Step two: Support the formation and strength of collagen.
Step three: Design specific herbal interventions for the unique symptom picture of the person.
Step four: Strengthen the immune function.
And only in step five, use herbal anti-spirchetals to control the infection.

On step three: Design specific herbal interventions for the unique symptom picture of the person. -- this is where you address the most horrible symptom you have. If it is racing heart you would try for some heart healthy herbs (Hawthorn, motherwort, etc). If it is lymph, at this time you would address that (try Red Root). This is why Buhner's books are important.

I had great success following Buhner's ways. I did not try and reinvent all the work he had done. I stuck to his ways.

However, I also listened to my body and when something was not agreeable, I put it aside and moved on. I always knew I could come back later and try it again.

I detoxed like my life depended on it.
*********

The above is why I love Buhner's book versus his website. It is way more complete and explanatory.

Posted 9/30/2016 3:56 PM (GMT 0)
Mike:

For capsule sizes - take a look at this.

www.capsuledepot.com/capsule-size-information/
Posted 9/30/2016 5:43 PM (GMT 0)
Been reading this post with interest... I have nothing of value to add except that JK tastes fine to me... so far all 4 taste fine, hahahahahahahahaha -- I can't recall which one is supposed to taste like rotten fish, but apparently I'm not that far along yet...

I do use ozone also. I did UBI (blood cleaning with ozone) and now I do ozone saunas and insufflations (yeah, the crap we do). I find it helps with the killing but not the supporting of my body. We are all different though, and each one of us has a very unique burden to try and rebalance... someone else might only need ozone, or perhaps it doesn't affect others. I had great success, so it's part of my daily detox journey.
Posted 9/30/2016 5:46 PM (GMT 0)
Thank you Girlie. Waiting for Sage to get back to me on a link for their Andrographis and Cats Claw in Powder form. They NEVER have these links shown but Valerie told me she has it? I am trying to find out it's strength etc so I know how many capsules I would need to take 3 to 6 times every day? The #2 size looks nice and small for me, but looks to me like I would need 13 capsules for each 1 teaspoon Oh my poor throat! I may need to buy a couple feet of 1" PVC pipe and have Trish make a blowgun out of it and fire off all 13 in one "blow"! Then she better run like, well YOU know....

But VERY confused on the dosing for Andrographis. If I read correctly in his nrew book 1/3 to 1/2 ounce each dose 3 times a day? My God I would be broke in a week! Even in powder unless I am missing something? I get the 1200 mg 3 times a day so hope the Sage brand is strong or am going to look at Amazon to see what I can find? This darn drug is really messing me up trying to figure out.
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