#BiofilmProblems

Everyone has issues getting rid of biofilm :P That is arguably one of the biggest reasons we're all here lol. When you say you have thick ones, how do you know? I don't think there's really enough research to understand how any of the supplements affect good biofilms vs bad. I believe you already have serrapeptase in that supplement. I would speak to your doc about adding something else, but if you're not having a noticeable reaction i don't see the harm. It can take a long time to degrade these biofilms. Even in vitro sapi has shown proteolytic enzymes are rather disappointing on borrelial biofilms. They work, just not very efficiently at least in her study. How did the stevia make you feel? I've been curious about that one. Beyond that monolaurin and baicalein and bee venom are the only other things I've heard of that have tested effective, in vitro.

I don't really know much about ozone honestly. You should watch Eva Sapi's talk on biofilms on youtube. Might give you some ideas. Most of the things that would normally melt away a staph biofilm are pretty disappointing against borrelial biofilms. However, the biofilms in the body are probably polymicrobial so it may still work for many. But if you're having trouble with EDTA/enzymes/etc that might be part of the reason. Not all biofilms are equal and what's marketed to deal with biofilms is not necessarily effective for all cases of lyme. That's why Sapi's team has been fighting to find some good compounds. Buhners opinion on the other hand is that a variety of herbal compounds are effective against biofilms and quorum sensing. I will list them below. But again, he doesn't seem to give much attention to the vast variability in bacterial biofilms. While I'm sure by nature many of these are effective, the only one on the list to my knowledge that was actually tested effective against borrelia specifically is a flavenoid in chinese skullcap. Whether it works in vivo i don't know, but it might indicate that other flavenoids such as quercetin/EGCG/luteolin etc might be useful. On a positive note chinese skullcap is used for neurological issues meaning it probably has good availability. I don't believe the isolated flavenoids are very easily absorbed by don't quote me. Bioavailability of the herbs below might be problematic too. Something to pay attention to

Andrographis paniculata
Houttuynia cordata
Polygonum cuspidatum
Rhodiola spp
Scutellaria baicalensis
Apigenin
N-acetyl cysteine
Resveratrol
Achillea millefolium
Achyranthes
Aspera
Aegle marmelos
Boesenbergia rotunda
Capparis spinosa
Cassia siamea
Chelidonium majus
Coccina grandis
Dendrophtehoe falcate
Dolichos lablab
Embelia ribes
Emblica officinalis
Epmedium brevicornum
Glycyrrhiza spp
Juniperus pp
Lonicera spp
Malus pumila
Melaleuca alternifolia
Mentha piperata
Nigella sativa
Paeonia lactiflora
Piper sarmentosum
Plectranthus barbatus
P. ecklonii
Rhodomyrtus tomentosa
Rosmarinus officinalis
Salvadora persica
Sclerocarya birrea (bark decoction)
Zingiber
Baifuqing
Berberine
TanReQing
Piperine
Royal jelly
Curcumin

There really isn't a 'good' biofilm, from what I understand. They hide all kinds of nasties that we have to deal with when the biofilm breaks open is all.

I'll be starting Cistus tea soon to see if the herbs I'm already on are effective 'enough' at destroying biofilms or if I need some extra help. Cistus tea has been reported that it's very effective with Borrelia biofilms.

In addition to biofilms - cysts to consider. Using Grapefruit Seed Extract for that. When I run out of serrapeptase going to rotate to Cistus. GREAT thread.

Boluoke is a very highly touted lumbrokinase.
It's really expensive though.

Don't forget about essential oils:
www.supremenutritionproducts.com/BFB/

So far I've found them to be the most effective. I have also used serrapeptase, nattokinase, cistus, lactoferrin xylitol, NAC, and Nigella Sativa.

I just make my own blend thats sort of like a combination of those two formulas. There are some scientific studies on certain oils being anti-biofilm, but I think most probably are to some extent.

I was going to create a separate question for this but I just saw this thread and thought it might be fitting since you guys seem to know quite a bit and I guess this would be considered a #biofilmproblem ha

I just started a biofilm treatment, and a week an a half in had a sever reaction (nausea, vomiting, etc) I'm on 3 Serrapeptase a day at 80000 UTI Is this a pretty standard herx? I stopped taking them for a day to see if maybe it was my meds and felt okay on my meds the next day so I'm reintroducing it back into my system again today at a smaller dose (2 a day). I've had lyme for 4 years now so I'm wondering if maybe the severe reaction is to all the toxins that are getting released, I am trying to detox as much as I can.

Traveler said...
There really isn't a 'good' biofilm, from what I understand. They hide all kinds of nasties that we have to deal with when the biofilm breaks open is all.

I'll be starting Cistus tea soon to see if the herbs I'm already on are effective 'enough' at destroying biofilms or if I need some extra help. Cistus tea has been reported that it's very effective with Borrelia biofilms.

The majority of microorganisms prefer to be in biofilms in real world situations including beneficial microbes in the gut and other mucosal layers. These biofilms form part of the healthy flora and protect the body from infection. There has been little study on therapeutic compounds against biofilms, much less on compounds that selectively destroy harmful ones.

As for Cistus tea, to my understanding it's the oil that is anti-borrelial not the water extract