Herbs? Lyme? Herx? What the heck is going on?

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Anyone heal without herbs and just a super clean diet and supplements? Because that may have to be me."

I went full elimination diet for over a year. I feel it had some benefit, but honestly no... Did not heal fully. While the body is intelligent in it's healing capacity, microorganisms are intelligent in their destructive capacity. I won't say you can never heal on diet alone, but once you go this far down the hole it usually takes a few interventions to get the body back in shape. Disease is a bit like walking into a cave and having it collapse. You can not always simply turn around and walk back out the way you came. You have to get creative to get out

Is there any particular reason you chose the condensed cowden protocol? I'll admit i'm slightly biased, but you might benefit from Buhners instead. Little is known about banderol but it's primarily used as an antimicrobial. Buhner does include some antimicrobials, but designs his protocol mostly around the use of supportive herbs and cytokine inhibitors. Some people still herx, but it's not a "requirement" the way it is with abx or antimicrobials since the effect is much more gradual and inhibitory on the microorganisms rather than directly biocidal. The other possibility is that banderol is doing nothing and you're backsliding from getting off the abx. You can try and lower the dose and see how you feel. If lowering the dose makes you feel better it's probably a herx. If you feel worse or the same you might be backsliding. Long term it's a good idea to take the dose just under the threshold that causes symptoms. This will leave you more functional without having to forgo treatment.

Why can't you take knotweed? Honestly I'm not the person to recommend a particular regimen. I've had some abdominal problems that have made it hard to get off the ground and stick with any treatment. I did like cats claw a lot though. Also your case is going to be unique. Do you know what coinfections you have? If so i'd recommend just getting some of his books and looking through them and seeing what feels right to you. Unlike cowden they're very flexible and can be designed to specific symptom pictures. And yeah, like you i didn't think i had a lot of neuro problems until i started treating either. These little guys seem to get everywhere and we just don't know it because the symptoms can sometimes be mild in certain locations. Anytime i take something that hits my peripheral neuropathy i notice a corresponding increase in cognitive issues and anxiety. The idea that i might come out of this with more cognitive function than i went into it with is pretty exciting though

Yeah i should have been specific. Switching to buhners is not a cop out for sensible dosing. I just haven't found the supportive herbs as dramatic as the antibacterial ones. Though i still have had unpleasant reactions. It's just been less-aggressive in my experience and there is more flexibility regarding symptom management. I've learned the hard way recently that slow and steady is mandatory. Even things like milk thistle have made me feel like crap so i'm by no means saying this is an easy out from the difficulties of lyme. It's just a more flexible protocol with more options to better find what works for you as an individual and what doesn't

Huddie, just a note on the foggy feeling today. Anytime I don't sleep well I flare with neuro symptoms, brain fog, dizziness, heart palpitaions and breathlessness and weakness. It happens without fail.

As far as Buhner's herbs, he suggests Jap. Knotweed, for protecting the brain and heart, which you could replace with EGCG and Stephania, since you cannot take it, cat's claw, , eleuthero and ashwaganda,which help to restore the immune system. The ashwaganda will also help if you have sleep issues. And the eleuthero can help with fatugue. There are many others, but you only want to start one at a time. 1 drop a day to start.

Before you start anything however, are you detoxing consistently. (If I am remembering right you are but I too am foggy today!) That is the first thing to get acclimated to. You want a clear pathway to get rid of the toxins.

You should also get on some kind of collagen support such as Great Lakes gelatin powder and some Vit. C. Lyme loves our collagen!

Hope your day gets better.

LOL! We've been trapped inside that 'game' as well!! So we understand the confusion!!

Yep, that's kinda the gist of it - although you are the game changer. You can take it very slowly and increase your detoxing as much as needed to keep the herxing under control. While herxing, you will feel like crap - no two ways about it, but we are in control of this process!

But, make no mistake, the herbs will still kill the bacteria - or raise the immune system to do so.

Trav,

Thanks. Ok well I might as well surrender to just doing it now. This sounds like a pay now, or pay even more later, type of disease. What the heck. If you long timers can do it I guess my wimpy self can do it. Reading Just Mike's posts were inspirational. If that man can have so much courage, certainly I can muster up a bit more. Impatience and Lyme do not marry well. I live in Manhattan during the week and it's not like you can get in your car and drive to your kids school. This is a city where you need to be able to walk, move, navigate and have energy.

Ok will keep up the dance! One step forward, two-three back...

I know you are much, much, much further along than I am but what do you do to detox on a herxing day? Or any day? I'm doing dry brushing, lemon-water, komboucha, detox tea, spirulina/chlorella. I think I'm forgetting something. Then I do lots of support supplements.

If you are having strong herx symptoms like this I think you should stick to 1 drop until things calm down. I've heard of people staying at 1 drop then upping dosage to 2 drops after a week, sometimes longer. It's not easy being patient, but better to play it safe and make sure the herxing doesn't spiral out of control.

Thanks everyone!

Denikeef, I just ordered: Stephania from Montana Pharmacy, Ashwaganhah from Herb Pharm, Eleuthero from Herb Pharm. I couldn't find EGCG. Isn't that just green tea? Can I just drink green tea? Thanks. Will let you know how the new protocol goes.

Trav, I'll add in the foot soak. I do high doses of C and I take ALA, Yogi detox (how many cups do you have?), and I'll do oil pulling although I don't find it does much. I do an essential oil rub on the soles of my feet that I think detox:Clove, Oregano, Theives and Frankincense. I have ACV - will add it in. I haven't taken the charcoal in over a week but will start that again too. I love that but the timing of it stinks. Thanks!

Sebreg, Thanks. I am going to try one drop for one week. I didn't think it would do anything but rowingmom had success with low dosages. I am very sensitive and very petite so can't take large dosages. Thanks.

Peteza, I am a detoxer too. Before lyme my diet has been pretty much the same. I am (was) a nutritionist for a living. I do green drinks, juicing, organic foods, pretty much a candida, mostly plant based diet, no alcohol or sugar, lots and lots of lemon water, lots of supplements and essential oils and yoga - all before lyme.

Ha! That is me too. Every 30 minutes or so. I just down it. Luckily we like water. Some people don't like it. Like my son. Have to nag him to drink water.

I forgot about the Alka Seltzer Gold. I'm going to go have one and see if helps this headache.

You guys are the BEST.