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Thyroid Lab Results - Questions - those with knowledge...Astroman...or ?

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Posted 9/10/2016 6:47 AM (GMT 0)
I keep coming back to this....(sorry!!)

I have posted my test results before...and my TSH, FT3 and FT4 are in range every time. (Low TSH, and upper end of ranges for FT3 and FT4)

I was reading some posts on a Thyroid forum last night and I saw some results similar to mine. A person (someone who is very active in that forum) - posted that the results indicated hyperthyroid.

He said anything lower than a TSH of 1 along with higher end of range T3.
(And this was for no medication, untreated thyroid)

So, here are my results...I keep coming back to hyperthyroid because there is something 'wrong' still - and I'm trying to figure out what it is....I am shivering a lot, with intermittent sweating episodes.

DATE TSH (.38-5.5) FT3 ( 3.0-6.8) FT4 ( 8-15 )

Nov/2012 .5

Aug/2013 .46

Oct/2013 .45 (.27-4.2)

Nov/2013 .40 (.34-5.6) 5.0 (FT3) 12 (FT4)

May/2016 .57

Sept/2016 .84

The TSH range keeps changing....
I can't find my results for a test done between end of 2013 and 2016 - but it was similar to the Nov/2104 - all three tests were done.
What do you think of the higher TSH on my most recent test? That's quite a difference...don't you think?

It was April, 2013 when symptoms of lyme started.

Should I be getting the antibodies testing done...I can try to convince my Dr. that it's necessary to rule out Hashimotos.

Are these two tests all I need to put my mind at ease...or would it still not rule out a thyroid issue.

- anti-TPO

- TgAb.

If I didn't have these shivers/sweating and pain (I read pain can be from hyperthyroid) then I wouldn't be concerned....also have a little bit of anxiety when I wake up each morning.

Thanks!!!!
Posted 9/10/2016 1:07 PM (GMT 0)
All I can tell you is that from my personal experience when my TSH went lower than 1 (on naturethroid) I went hyperthyroid. My main symptoms were high heart rate, chest pressure and aching in my thyroid. My hair also started to fall out.

Do you have a more recent lab for Ft3 and Ft4? I would get that as well as TPO, TgAb.

Normally, my tsh is around 2. But my FT3 and FT4 are way lower than yours. More like 3.0 (FT3) and 1.2 (FT4). So I am low in range for both which would point to Hypothyroid. I could probably use some thyroid support but I think these ranges are like everything else - very personalized and where one person may not have issues another one would.
Posted 9/10/2016 1:14 PM (GMT 0)
Girlie

Sooooo many people on thyroid forums are just as confused about TSH as their doctors are.

Low TSH in and of itself does NOT indicate hyperthyroidism.

TSH is a pituitary hormone and has no physiological implications - it does not cause any symptoms.

It's the actual thyroid hormone levels (Free T4 and Free T3) that can cause symptoms.

Looking at TSH to judge thyroid status is like looking at the odometer when you want to know how much gas you have in your tank.

Also, TSH levels fluctuate as much as 200% throughout the day in the body's attempts at maintaining stable thyroid hormone levels.

Most educated thyroid patients wish doctors would stop checking their TSH level and instead focus on the levels that matter (FT4/FT3)

The TSH range keeps changing because endocrinologists can't agree on what it should be. Here in the US, the AACE (American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists) recommended that the range be lowered back in 2002. Because it's expensive to change testing kits, labs haven't necessarily done so and expect doctors to be aware of the range change.

No matter what, please, please, please....ignore your TSH results.

As someone who started her thyroid disease journey with Graves' induced hyperthyroidism and then moved into hypothyroidism after remission, I can tell you that symptoms overlap between hyperthyroidism and hypothyroidism.

When I was hyper, my large muscle groups hurt. When I was hypo, all of my joints and muscles could hurt. There were various manifestations in between.

Temperature dysregulation also happens with both hyper and hypothyroidism.

I only had anxiety upon awakening when hypo but could have it anytime when hyper.

Hair loss happened when I was hypo, when I was hyper....and after thyroid dose adjustments. Hair is very sensitive to changes in thyroid hormone levels.

Thyroid swelling happened when I was hypo and when I was hyper. Give me time and I can think of more overlapping symptoms ;)

You may be aware of Elaine Moore, author of the go-to book for Graves' patients: "Graves' Disease - A Practical Guide". I learned about her from a Graves' forum I found back in 2007. Elaine guided many of us to remission and has answered countless questions I had/have (I still post questions on her forum from time to time since she was a hospital laboratory technologist for 30 years)

Here's a link to Elaine's Q&A forum:

elaine-moore.com/Forums/ActiveForums/tabid/323/aff/1/Default.aspx

I suggest you put together your full lab history (and be sure to include reference ranges) along with the concerns you might have (I'd also mention Lyme/Bart)

Here are links to question that were posed to her and addresses similar concerns as yours :

elaine-moore.com/Forums/ActiveForums/tabid/323/aft/2489/Default.aspx

elaine-moore.com/Forums/ActiveForums/tabid/323/aft/2096/Default.aspx

Sorry, but I think you need to look someplace other than thyroid as the cause for your issues.
Posted 9/10/2016 1:54 PM (GMT 0)
I wouldnt say her thyroid isnt a problem. If those test results are what shes been having done, theres no possible way you can diagnose let alone treat a condition. You simply dont have enough information to go on. Definitely need TgAB, TPO, TSHRAb, TSI, TBII....besides the Free T's. Get the whole picture.

100% correct on TSH, which is why I dont go to "our" thyroid forum any longer. The veins in my neck were about to explode multiple times reading there.

I was getting blood work done around 7am for a long time. My TSH was always around 1.1-1.2 when I got things somewhat stable. One day I had some issues to take care of in the morning, so I had blood work drawn after work. It was 3pm when I got there. 4 days later the doc called me and said we needed to make an appointment. He said I was "swinging hyper" and needed to lower my dose. My TSH was .44. We decided to lower my dose. The next 3 weeks were absolute hell!! I went hypo so fast and didnt know what was wrong, how could this happen!?!?! Thats when I became a "doctor". I started researching everything. I bought STTM book(which I HATE, and thats an understatement!). I went on forums. I talked to friends and family.

At that point, my TSH was 6.5. And I finally put my foot down and had antibodies done. TPO 762. I had Hashimotos. I found another doc that put me on Armour. Then Acella. I later found out I dont do well with the extra T3 and am back to levothyroxine, doing very well now again. Point is, TSH can swing wildly from morning til evening.


One point I want to add, I was never really stable, though I thought I was, until I started treating Lyme this year. My thyroid labs are rock solid now. My RT3 dropped. Its easier now to separate which symptoms were thyroid, and which are Lyme/Bart. A lot of people have an issue with me saying this, but I dont believe I have a wonky autoimmune problem. My Hashis was set off by Lyme/Bart. I firmly believe that, as my TPO has dropped over half since treatment for Lyme started. But, enough rambling.

Whatever your issue, you need proper testing to understand whats going on. TSH shouldnt worry you. Improper testing should. Good luck!
Posted 9/10/2016 2:24 PM (GMT 0)

artermix said...
For women thyroid is very tricky. For women in peri-menopause and menopause especially. It is NORMAL to have thyroid function off chart during hormonal changes. I know this is an issue even among doctors, like said above looking at lab result the wrong way. In many women the thyroid does normalize post-menopause...but you never know if you are on thyroid medication.
If lyme is messing with the thyroid and the thyroid is already "abnormal" because hormonal changes how do we know it should be addressed or not as thyroid being the MAIN problem???

As for any disease or malaise....why the thyroid goes bad so fast and so commonly? IMO this just does not make sense and ya'll can give me your side of logic and I have hard time believing that tot number of people are suffering from Grave Disease, or Hashimoto or whatever just suddenly.
My LLMD suggested that I also have thyroid issue. My regular drs does not. They both have completely different approach to testing and reading tests. I suggest based on my family history as well that my thyroid problems, if an, are due mainly to hormonal changes and NOW also to Lyme. Thus thyroid should not be addressed as first problem. I am tired because of lyme not thyroid.
Although, in all truth I WISH it was the other way around. You see how Hillary Clinton suffers from underachieve thyroid and has more energy than an olympic athlete campaigning around the US......

At this point I believe very little of what any drs is going to tell me or how is going to evaluate me.


Try being a man with Hashimotos. Hashimotos is a "womans disease". On top of that, youre losing weight and you cant possibly lose weight and be hypo at the same time.....its crazy what docs think.

Hillary is pumped so full of meds she could croak and her nerves would still be jiggling 10 yrs from now.

As far as "As for any disease or malaise....why the thyroid goes bad so fast and so commonly?"...inflammation. It destroys everything. The endocrine system gets over worked trying to repair everything and in turn your body sees this hard work as a malfunction and it tries to calm the endocrine system down and the vicious cycle of autoimmunity begins.
Posted 9/10/2016 3:56 PM (GMT 0)
Girlie- TSH changes hourly, and as others have mentioned, dont look at TSH that much. Yours really has not changed much though. It can be used together when everything else is way off though.

The frees are what matter most and those should be tested at the same times for comparison.

TPO, TgAb, and TSI are the standard tests to sooth your mind of thyroid antibodies.

Yes some contributors on lyme forums have much to learn. I have corrected a few thoughts on the one here. Some people still think natural thyroid is "poison" too LOL.

General thyroid ranting:

For those with thyroid issues, they really need to experiment and figure out what works best for them. And if its autoimmune, they might never get 100% better, as the cause of autoimmune can be many multiple things.

Autoimmune thyroid can be equally tough on men, (it can tank our testosterone as well) you just don't hear about it from us since so many ill men are "health clueless" and refuse to self learn/manage their health.

Autoimmune sucks. When people with this and other things like lyme, and candida and whatever else, it becomes very difficult to figure out whats causing what. The certainty of some leads me wondering sometimes.
Posted 9/10/2016 4:16 PM (GMT 0)
Trader, I was curious about the statement you made about the STTM book:
"I bought STTM book(which I HATE, and thats an understatement!). " Can I ask why? I found the site (not the book!) to be very revealing to me and I learned a lot. Enough to help guide me through my own thyroid issues mostly.

I agree that Hashi's can be set off by these infections - that's exactly what happened to me. I was diagnosed with Hashi's (numbers were so high, the doc had NO doubt about it), and I did try Synthroid at the time, but when it didn't work at all for me, I dropped it and went with homeopathic remedies a bit later that really did help me. After I had healed the first time, my numbers went back to being completely normal. I had one Endo that yelled at me in the exam room that NO ONE heals from Hashi's, so obviously I "never had it" and he wanted to do surgery on me instead of evaluating me for or treating me for thyroid issues. I got out of there just as quickly as I could after he stated that.

It wasn't until my adrenals crashed really bad that my thyroid started bothering me again, and this time I'm hypothyroid. But, I'm also infected again, which I believe there is a connection with that yet again.
Posted 9/10/2016 4:30 PM (GMT 0)
Some endos are so egotistically stubborn.....

I found one who listens and would try what I wanted to try. Hes been so bombarted with "non standard" thyroid and general health info, that some appears to be sinking into his noggin.

While some love synthyroid and then some unfortunately assume that natural thyroid is not needed, the opposite views happen too. The people who have tried both will say use whatever works for you, and some dont need med. I think it can be healed if caught early - vary rare though. My TPO dropped (great I though), but thy hormone need remained, oh well........
Posted 9/10/2016 8:24 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks to all of you for posting...I really, REALLY appreciate it.

I got myself all in a dither over what I read on a thyroid forum - that TSH value below 1 coupled with my FT3 and FT4 being in upper range means hyperthyroid.

I have been to two endocrinologists - during my initial search for what was wrong with me (pre-lyme diagnosis) - and there's no reason to go back to them...IMO. I don't think either one of them would look past my 'in range' lab results.

My GP has been quite good about testing me for everything 'under the sun' - she recently had me do some autoimmune labs again...'just in case'
Having said that...I probably only have one 'kick at the can' with questioning my thyroid labs...and wanting more testing.

TPO, TgAb, and TSI - so those labs should be good to rule out thyroid issues? Now, what if it's not Hashimoto's but a growth on my thyroid - would those tests still be sufficient?

Final question(s) : Should I still get these tests done in the morning like I usually do...or change the time?

Is it only the TSH that is affected by time of day? Are FT3 and FT4 - not ones that fluctuate much throughout the day?
Posted 9/10/2016 8:59 PM (GMT 0)
The tests astroman recommended are the ones you need to rule out autoimmune thyroid issues.

A thyroid ultrasound would reveal any potential growths.

TSH is highest in the morning and FT4/FT3 are at their lowest. (think about it, we don't need gas (thyroid hormone) when we're sleeping but the body needs it when we wake and that's when the pituitary starts calling on the thyroid to produce more hormone - it secretes more TSH (thyroid stimulating hormone).

TSH is at its lowest in the afternoon and that's when FT4/FT3 levels are usually at their highest point.

Remember: the body produces varying amounts of TSH in attempts at keeping FT4/FT3 levels stable.

Therefore, even though the FT4/FT3 levels change during the day, it's not a lot and there won't be a huge difference in your FT4/FT3 levels at different times of the day.

However, TSH fluctuates by as much as 200% throughout the day in attempts at maintaining stable FT4/FT3 levels. The latter can explain the changes in the TSH levels you shared.

Healthy people have TSH levels between .3 and 1.0 usually. That's why there continues to be talk of lowering the range.

Big Pharma makes more money selling drugs for the diseases and conditions caused by low thyroid and the AACE is in their pockets. That's why nothing changes.
Posted 9/10/2016 9:05 PM (GMT 0)
200%? WOW! I guess I'll never agree to have my TSH tested in the am again.
Posted 9/10/2016 9:26 PM (GMT 0)
Oh...wow - I wonder how low my TSH would be in the afternoon...maybe I will try it and see...
Posted 9/10/2016 9:54 PM (GMT 0)
Funny thing about Thyroid nodules, many people have them without thyroid symptoms.

This must have been discovered from other imaging "catching" the thyroid in the image. I mean, if you had no thyroid issues/symptoms, why would someone get a thyroid untrasound to begin with?

Nodules over 10mm in any direction are cause for further investigation.

Thyroid might seem complicated if you go to far with the details., and dwell on them.

TSH is just an affordable way to look at thyroid patterns in a glance. You cant diagnose or treat off of it. Like anything, you get what you or the dr pays for.
Posted 9/10/2016 9:57 PM (GMT 0)
Girlie- Anziety in the AM can be from adrenal stress too. Mornings themselves, if you have things that need to be done can be stressfull. Add illness to it and bingo.

All forms of stress are hard on the body, it takes very long to recover from illness based stress.

I do better now, but not like years ago.
Posted 9/10/2016 10:05 PM (GMT 0)
My a.m. anxiety is strange. It's before I'm even conscious that I'm awake - if that makes sense.
So, I don't think it's about things that need to be done...or plans I have for the day.

Maybe it's from 3 years of illness...especially the 15 months prior to diagnosis...it's still in the brain lingering...

It appears as I'm waking up...and lasts a couple of minutes at most...Not a big deal...just kind of a sucky way to wake up most mornings.

I did have 4 point cortisol tested...and I was a wee bit low - I think two points of the day...but wasn't sure if it was significant....I will have to take a look at the results again.

maybe it's time for me to try the Pregnenalone and progesterone....sigh.
Posted 9/10/2016 11:49 PM (GMT 0)

Traveler said...
Trader, I was curious about the statement you made about the STTM book:
"I bought STTM book(which I HATE, and thats an understatement!). " Can I ask why? I found the site (not the book!) to be very revealing to me and I learned a lot. Enough to help guide me through my own thyroid issues mostly.


I debated for a bit before answering this. Reason? Many here may not be so happy with me and my answer. Before I say why, I want to say my feelings are mine, and I dont want to offend anyone. Ill keep it short and not go in depth.

I am a Mr Fixit. When I bought Janies book, I did so on a recommendation. I then joined a group, which im sure youve heard of. I went into this with great expectations from all the folks who've had "success". In short, I pissed off a bunch of people. Why? Because I analyze everything. And im vocal about my opinions. If im wrong, you have to show me why.

First, I had issues with doctors, specifically endocrinologists. You know, docs who love TSH, the "gold standard". I wouldnt let them treat my dog, if I had a dog :) After reading Janies book front to back, I came away with the exact same foul taste that I got from endos. I dont need an extremist pov, I need info that digs! I want to know the nuts and bolts. STTM didnt give me that. It was a biased gathering of "scientific evidence" filled with her hatred of anything T4 only related.

So, naturally, I went to the group. Hey, im human, maybe her writing style came off wrong. Maybe I missed something. I was certain the good folks in the group would fill me in. That they did. With even more biased BS that I wasnt having any of. NDT isnt for everyone. Levothyroxine isnt for everyone. We're all individuals with individual needs. Pooling, the biggest line of BS I ever encountered! I dont believe in adrenal fatigue. I liken it to IBS, a set of symptoms no one has a clue how to cure, though everyone has an answer for. Some very dangerous. Im all for self medicating, because quite frankly, doctors dont have our best interest at heart and they dont have the time money or resources even if they did. But to self medicate you need solid material to go by. You cant be a great detective if you are basing your investigation off of biased information.

I wont go any further. But ask yourself many questions when using material such as this. One thing that stuck out early on was, the folks giving the information, though they bowed down to Janie for "curing" them, were constantly jumping from doc to doc, chasing their tails. Trying every next big cure on their journey to wellness.

That said, I dont want you to construe what I said in the immediate paragraph above to mean I think the same about you all and your recommendations here. Thats just another reason why I thought hard about not answering out in the open, and emailing you instead. You all arent the whack jobs I encountered. Youre all Mr & Mrs Fixits too, and why I like this place.

Post Edited (trader758) : 9/10/2016 5:52:03 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 9/11/2016 1:58 AM (GMT 0)
Well think about it. If you want to write a book on thyroid, a whole book, your going to need a lot of filler.

Mary S's thyroid book was certainly "over stuffed" but I suppose ok for a newbie. Both books are filled with opinions, and "fillers" but they have some good info to. But to worship them....no. Have to remember, both are making profits off this.

Having worked in science, engineering, being a listed inventor as well as a home grown DIY selfer, I tend to over analyze stuff too, and i like (need) details. But what I learned is dont assume something does not exist until you have proof it doesn't. And just because something works for others, does not mean it will for you, and vice versa.

Once upon a time the worlds greatest scientists were sure the world was flat.
Posted 9/11/2016 2:27 AM (GMT 0)
Artemix...

You may know from my thyroid-related posts that I put a lot of stock in the writings of Elaine Moore.

She is well-written on a number of health topics and is considered by her peers in the medical field to be an expert on Graves' Disease and Autoimmune Disease.

Here's a link to one of Elaine's articles that's about infection and autoimmune disease:

elaine-moore.com/Articles/EnvironmentalTriggersandInfluencesArticles/InfectionandAutoimmuneDisease/tabid/208/Default.aspx

If you look to the left of the page, you'll find links to other factors involved with autoimmune diseases.

And, here's a link to Elaine's article about thyroid disease triggers:

elaine-moore.com/Articles/Graves%E2%80%99DiseaseArticles/ThyroidDiseaseTriggers/tabid/183/Default.aspx
Posted 9/11/2016 2:38 AM (GMT 0)
Oh - for anyone who might be interested....

Elaine Moore co-authored the book "Cannabis Extracts in Medicine" with Dr. Jeffrey Dach (a thyroid-savvy doctor ;) and Justin Kander:

www.bookdepository.com/Cannabis-Extracts-in-Medicine-Jeffrey-Dach-Elaine--Moore-Justin-Kander/9780786496631?ref=grid-view


And, another useful book of hers is "The Promise of Low Dose Naltrexone Therapy":

www.bookdepository.com/The-Promise-of-Low-Dose-Naltrexone-Therapy-Elaine--Moore-Samanth-Wilkinson/9780786437153?ref=bd_recs_1

It was because of me reading this book when I was considering LDN for my Graves' that motivated me to ask my LLMD to prescribe it for me.

I'm not advertising for Elaine Moore btw. She just knows her stuff about a lot of stuff that interests me ;)
Posted 9/11/2016 2:58 AM (GMT 0)

astroman said...
Well think about it. If you want to write a book on thyroid, a whole book, your going to need a lot of filler.

Mary S's thyroid book was certainly "over stuffed" but I suppose ok for a newbie. Both books are filled with opinions, and "fillers" but they have some good info to. But to worship them....no. Have to remember, both are making profits off this.

VERY heavy profits. Those profits beget more profits, from sources other than books. Mainly other doctors in related fields. You know, most of us have no issues berating our GPs, endos, ..the CDC, IDSA...but rarely do we make the connection with the doubters, the naysayers who sell us alternative remedies. Rackets exist on both sides. We're sick, and we want to believe. People really need to stay on top of things, a skeptic of everything.

astroman said...
Having worked in science, engineering, being a listed inventor as well as a home grown DIY selfer, I tend to over analyze stuff too, and i like (need) details. But what I learned is dont assume something does not exist until you have proof it doesn't. And just because something works for others, does not mean it will for you, and vice versa.

Dont assume something exists until you have proof it does. That whole vice versa thing, right? Oh, and I dont over analyze, and neither do you. You can never analyze enough, because.......

astroman said...
Once upon a time the worlds greatest scientists were sure the world was flat.

....science is ever changing. Accepting the term adrenal fatigue throws out the whole HPA axis. Somethings wrong, and it isnt the adrenals.


artermix said...
I love your answer Trader758......Well said.

Thank you.

artermix said...
That was the reason for my post as well few posts ago....If anyone could just explain to me WHY the thyroid would go bad or "malfunction" in so many people treated for it. I really would love to hear that. Just like I am sure that one person every 3 cannot possibly suffer from depression that needs to be "medicated".....but that is another post.
So you say inflammation.....but inflammation does not happen suddenly without explanation there is always and another hidden issue.

Right. So find the issue. Organs dont just fail, barring age. Cytokines, killer cells, etc....find out whats causing the issue.


cd3764 said...
Oh - for anyone who might be interested....

Elaine Moore co-authored the book "Cannabis Extracts in Medicine" with Dr. Jeffrey Dach (a thyroid-savvy doctor ;) and Justin Kander:

www.bookdepository.com/Cannabis-Extracts-in-Medicine-Jeffrey-Dach-Elaine--Moore-Justin-Kander/9780786496631?ref=grid-view


And, another useful book of hers is "The Promise of Low Dose Naltrexone Therapy":

www.bookdepository.com/The-Promise-of-Low-Dose-Naltrexone-Therapy-Elaine--Moore-Samanth-Wilkinson/9780786437153?ref=bd_recs_1

It was because of me reading this book when I was considering LDN for my Graves' that motivated me to ask my LLMD to prescribe it for me.

I'm not advertising for Elaine Moore btw. She just knows her stuff about a lot of stuff that interests me ;)

I would love to try CBD. Its a subject I know little about, and right now I think it masks issues more than heal, but again, I know very little about it. Seems theres a lot of promise. I am intrigued to say the least.

LDN, I have a bunch of thoughts on, took it for well over a year. Its an amazing approach. Didnt work as well as I had hoped, but after emailing Dr Ian Zagon I made the decision to stop taking LDN. Something was holding me back. After talking with many other Lyme patients taking LDN I found we were all in the same boat. We were all dealing with something far too complex for LDN to handle. A simple boost of our immune system wasnt going to put us in remission. I do believe though that LDN is why I am still walking, able to work. I believe anyone dealing with a chronic illness should give it a shot.
Posted 9/11/2016 2:05 PM (GMT 0)
Thank you all, for your input on that - and Trader, I really was curious. I happen to agree, and although I never bought the book, I choose to check out the group first, and was disappointed. I did find a doctor that helped me in the beginning through that group, but evidently I either learned a LOT quickly, or she didn't know that much!! When I plateaued in treatment, the doctor would NOT raise my dose of anything. She blamed the rest of my issues on diet, and even following her guidance on diets, I still had symptoms and couldn't loose weight or have enough energy to get out of the house regularly - once a week grocery shopping took me days to recover from.

I do believe in adrenal fatigue. Why? Because I have it. It's the stage before Addison's - and most doctors do NOT recognize this. They will wait until the person's adrenals have completely shut down before addressing them - I was just barely above Addison's when I finally got some help. 2 years later, and I'm still struggling, but I've been on my own in treatment with thyroid and adrenal issues for the last year - but I've made more progress on my own than I did under that doctor's care.

We all have opinions about the things we read and try - the key is to realize this and to accept that the information may not be right for everyone.
Posted 9/11/2016 3:08 PM (GMT 0)

Traveler said...


I do believe in adrenal fatigue. Why? Because I have it. It's the stage before Addison's - and most doctors do NOT recognize this. They will wait until the person's adrenals have completely shut down before addressing them - I was just barely above Addison's when I finally got some help. 2 years later, and I'm still struggling, but I've been on my own in treatment with thyroid and adrenal issues for the last year - but I've made more progress on my own than I did under that doctor's care.

We all have opinions about the things we read and try - the key is to realize this and to accept that the information may not be right for everyone.

I respect folks opinions, highly, I hope you realize that. The skeptic in me can come off as an in your face type, because once again the "show me" surfaces. I am the type to need that interaction. I dont accept much without some type of evidence. Using you for example...

You have adrenal fatigue. How? What were your symptoms? You were "just barely above Addisons", how was that measured? What help did you receive? What was the results of that help? Youre still struggling, in what areas? Youre on your own treatment, what would that be, and what hormone levels is it affecting?

With each of the answers you would provide(which I dont want you to do, ive high jacked Girlies thread enough) I would come back with Why? Why? Why? and more Whys? And in the middle of those "Whys" id be throwing in some "isnt the supplementation of XXXX throwing off the natural feedback mechanism of XXXXX in the HPA axis? Why is XXXXX hormone low? Can you adding XXXX effect XXXX which would naturally suppress XXXX........I think you get where im going?

Youll hear me state I have IBS, more likely to say IBS symptoms though, because again its something I dont believe in. But theres something going on. I may find relief from XXXX remedy, but it really isnt curing my "IBS". It may be masking my symptoms, if so how? Whats this thing doing that my body should be doing. What am I lacking? Is there a bacteria or virus manipulating the natural balance?

Our bodies are simply amazing. We are very much capable of healing from almost everything. These puzzles are so complex that I have a hard time accepting some blah answer designed to appease me.

I have a friend who thinks the total opposite from me. Her husband has had kidney failure for years. 3 transplants. The 3rd is holding very well. Why did the kidneys fail in the first place? Why did each subsequent transplant fail? Why is the 3rd holding? Why Why Why.....I sound like a kid in the backseat screaming are we there yet, are we there yet, are we there yet. Some of us dont have the strength to press on, and submit to accepting things the way they are. I cant do that. It isnt in me.

Believe me, if I was on a hospital bed in pain, id be the first to scream MORPHINE!!!!! And plenty of prayers. But when/if the storm passes, I HAVE to know why. Its just who I am.

Thanks for understanding and putting up with my PITA. smilewinkgrin
Posted 9/11/2016 3:17 PM (GMT 0)
OH, and once again I would like to apologize to Girlie. Im sorry for high jacking your thread hun. That was not my intention and ive gone a bit overboard explaining myself. I wish you the best and hope you find the answers you seek. Thanks for always helping me through my issues, I truly am grateful for all the help you all provide. Have a great day!
Posted 9/11/2016 4:00 PM (GMT 0)

artermix said...
Trader758.....you should have a topic about how to get to the root of things....


I cant do that. Im not perfect, by far. What I try to do(though I havent much here) is plant a seed of doubt and let the individual become the detective. Why? As you said, we're all different. I cant possibly know how to fix you. Besides, im just an old country boy. Im not that great with words. Someone much more articulate can have that job. I just want people to think!!
Posted 9/11/2016 4:02 PM (GMT 0)
trader758- I really dont see your point, other than just putting your opinion out there. Why bother? There are plenty of arguable opinions in the lyme world.

I beg to differ on the adrenal thing. Stress does something long term to the body. Possibly the brain - gut- hormonal connection, not just adrenals. They have adrenal saliva test that do show this. Its obviously not proven, but many things here are not. Just because you might not have experienced what appears to be so called adrenal fatigue, does not mean it does not exit. The definition is not very concrete, and cant be at this point. Neither is chronic lyme in many cases.

Half the people here with chronic lyme would have a difficult time proving it on paper per your definition of what proof is.

If it weren't for open minds, science would get nowhere. Let it be, move on.
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