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Serrapeptase- could you really tell anything from this? Muscle Pain reduction?

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Posted 9/18/2016 5:08 PM (GMT 0)
Kind of a cure all, but is it really?

I took it before but stopped when I got a blood clot. Coincidence probably, as I later found I have a clotting gene.

Most take it here for biofilms, lyme cyst ect.

****But it supposedly breaks down injured tissue fibers - muscle adhesion's ect. causing pain- thats what I need help in. Thats different than covering over or masking pain with herbal remedies like tumeric ect.**

As I continue to peel away and heal injured muscle fiber, the areas get smaller and more specific. These are hard to get to heal, very stubborn trigger points, so looking for additional ideas. Trying to speed up this slow process. Might try it again, but at $30, I like to read others testimonials.

Post Edited (astroman) : 9/18/2016 11:43:18 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 9/18/2016 5:22 PM (GMT 0)
I wouldn't say it's a cure.


I first heard about it many years ago - long before lyme diagnosis.
My husband was taking it for his car accident injury (upper right side - rhomboid/trapezius muscle area)

He said it was helping for pain...but he says that with just about everything he tries...not sure I believe him anymore...haha
Posted 9/18/2016 5:23 PM (GMT 0)
Astroman,

I have been taking Wobezyme PS and seem to have little to no pain. Today it is almost 100% humidity and I have no pain. I am fairly new and have been experiencing joint/tendon pains in arm/wrists/hands/ankles - here and there. So far I'm doing fairly well because again it's new and I don't think my cos have shown up yet. So not trying to compare since it sounds like you have been dealing with pain longer but you may want to check it out. This is my second week on it. I also put magnesium oil and essential oils on all the 'pain points' before bed.

Feel better.
Posted 9/18/2016 5:38 PM (GMT 0)
"Cure all"- I meant its kind of marketed like "snake oil". Does so many things ect. Weve all tried stuff that had no obvious helping.
Posted 9/18/2016 5:46 PM (GMT 0)
Oh- I've tried many things to help "mask" pain in the past. I'm fixing muscle adhessions - the leftover cause (long story).

Serrpeptase- is not supposed to mask the pain like a pain killer- its supposed to actually break down adhessions. Muscle adhessions are a physical change in areas of muscle fiber.

Anti-inflamitories will not correct this, only mask it. Wobezyme and many similar product work to somewhat cover pain, but dont fix the cause in my case.
Posted 9/18/2016 5:49 PM (GMT 0)
Even if it was proven with a study to work on a certain number of patients you could fall into a category of those that does not get benefits from it for various reasons. These are all "mysteries" of our bodies... Like everything, try at your own risk or benefit.
I have a long list of scientifically proven protocols, Rx prescriptions, or else... that have not worked on me in other areas, beside lyme.
Vitamin B complex being one of those....I am highly sensitive to vitamin B. Don't know why....never cared to research it. I just stay away from it.
Posted 9/18/2016 5:56 PM (GMT 0)
Astroman,

So Wobezyme isn't good? Every time I crawl an inch ahead, I go backwards. Darn you lyme!

Keep us posted.
Posted 9/18/2016 6:36 PM (GMT 0)
Huddie,

Wobegon eases pain for many people. Most people here will have their pain go away with "lyme killing" treatment.

My leftover pain is different, and is rare on this forum. I have muscle adhessions (muscles stuck together that should glide over) and scar tissue, from hard core athletics while I had lyme, most do not have this.

It's mostly unknown info to non-athletes. I posted a lot in the past about physically treating this condition, hard core myofacial release, triggerpoint release ect. If you have interest in it you can google a lot, also my past posts here on this subject.

Post Edited (astroman) : 9/18/2016 2:03:25 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 9/18/2016 7:43 PM (GMT 0)
Astroman,

I'm sorry for all of your pain yet envious of those that remain athletic with lyme.

Have you ever tried rolfing? It is supposed to be amazing for tissue and digging deep. Not sure where you live but there is a great rolfer named Gil Hedley. I'm not sure he is practicing any longer. He used to be in New Jersey.
Posted 9/18/2016 7:47 PM (GMT 0)
But athletics is necessary for recovery from lyme. At least a minimal. It helps boost immune and detox too. For me the easiest way to detox.
Posted 9/18/2016 7:50 PM (GMT 0)
Artemix,

What do you do? And how soon after lyme did could you exercise? I was someone who exercised almost everyday. Just this week I started taking walks but I get fatigued after exercise. I am a big believer in exercise but you need some energy to do it!

You are very inspiring. Are you very young? I'm not old but I'm not in my 20-30s any longer.
Posted 9/18/2016 7:51 PM (GMT 0)
Huddie- Ive done something similar that cost $700, and did not help much, I would have gone broke from the appts needed to see change, but I learned from it. Most improvements now are from myself.

There's a local Rolfer who charges $1200 for the multiple visit program (10 visits?). I really looked into it, to understand it, I dont think it will do much in my case.

Oh- yes mag oil is messy but it helps, since its an electrolyte salt between our cells. Help pain, dont know if it heals though.

Post Edited (astroman) : 9/18/2016 1:55:13 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 9/18/2016 7:53 PM (GMT 0)
Sorry to hear that. I agree with you on the alternative treatments. I think if I did a bunch of them I would heal faster, or at least feel better/pampered but they are so expensive in Manhattan. Just can't spend $200+ a week on extras. I may give acupuncture a try although I don't see that discussed on here a lot so guessing it doesn't do much.
Posted 9/18/2016 8:01 PM (GMT 0)
Huddle......I exercised with lyme. Without knowing i had it. I thought I was becoming lazy.
AND.... thought it was because I was going through peri-menopause that is why I was so tired.
Then I though was thyroid......Yes I was so very tired that I would lay flat on the bench to bench press and close my eyes with the dumbbell up in the air. Some days I could not move my head left to right on pillow for the fatigue. Workout became crippling. My lower back was beginning to have problems when doing dead lifts.

I understand now when people say they are tired. But being an athlete you are used to push ye body to painful extremes than most people so you think you have to deal with the pain. I can workout thru pain of joints and muscles but the fatigue is just a car without gas in the tank.....ya know?? No I am middle age and a grandma too!! ha ha ha ha.....but the grand daughter is not allowed to call me grandma. :-)

I agree with you. Just walk and be outside because it helps you mentally. These only are the times I feel alive.
Posted 9/18/2016 8:02 PM (GMT 0)
Huddie- I did dry needling, (nothing in the seringe). It let go tension in tight areas the next day. Then three days later it would come back. I felt like a pin cushion.

It is healing with my daily regiment, but just way, way to slow. Life is short @ 50, I gotta speed this up.!!

Its been a wet year, I think its goona snow a lot. Snowshoeing is the best low impact exercise I ever discovered, its fun in the woods. Lungs, legs, back. I need this again. Obviously its pointless in less than 10" of snow pack, as you still sink 6 ".
Posted 9/18/2016 8:17 PM (GMT 0)

artermix said...
But athletics is necessary for recovery from lyme. At least a minimal. It helps boost immune and detox too. For me the easiest way to detox.

Agree. But you need to pay attention to your body, and not over do it. And let more recovery time in between. I went overboard since way back then, Drs insisted I was fine, even though I had all sorts of symptoms constantly changing. Same story as many here.

I somewhat believed Drs in my younger years. I had no internet in the 90's either, (it was kind of useless then anyway)..
Posted 9/18/2016 8:34 PM (GMT 0)
Artemix,

I hear you. I did similar. I was heavily into weight training (boot camp style). All of a sudden my energy was running out and I would feel exhausted for days after a workout. Also thought peri-menopause, more exercise = better. I pulled out my shoulder, still pushed through on good days but then would miss a week or two because of feeling low. Had no idea. Now I do 5 lb reps at home and it feels like 20 lbs weights used to. No more heavy training for me. I'm losing so much muscle but I hope the strength I did have helps a bit - I hope the same for you. You sound hard core - I was never like that. I just think it is important for aging and helps us feel better mentally. I agree walks make me feel normal, alive and in nature - although that is how I got bit :( - us against nature.
Posted 9/18/2016 8:51 PM (GMT 0)
I have to agree 100% with Astroman and Huddie the both of you about recovery time and taking it easy. However, again, phenotypes differ in recovery time just as well and intensity of how an individual can handle the duration of a workout.

My goal as an athlete was to train without any injuries. So far I have succeeded well in that area by listening to my body. That is still my main goal. But I am definitely not satisfied with minimal maintenance just to get by. This is not how I view workouts because this is not how my brain works.
Since each of us exercises for different reasons....fitness, health, competitiveness, psychological issues....or all of the above.....to me working with much less that I am used to it means a road to re-habilitation toward what it used to be. YES, of course, for the time being lets keep it just minimally moving.
No I am not hard core, I just approach it that way. I must have a goal or I would not do it at all.

This is what motivates me, or anybody for that matter, to keep living.
Posted 9/19/2016 2:17 PM (GMT 0)
I take Serrapeptase a;lmost one month, but I don't feel anything. Maybe it is too early?
My pain is the same. I hope it helps with biofilms, but I can't be sure.
How long it is needed to take it before you have some effects?
Posted 9/19/2016 3:53 PM (GMT 0)
I just go to the gym mainly to work out for better health and because I need to reverse my muscle damage for less daily pain and so I can do outdoor recreation that I enjoy.

But I used to go to train at the gym for: I was a bicycle racer (not so hard on the body). And a past motorcycle pro-motocross racer in my prime (very hard on body), even with lyme so my body was subject to a lot of jarring and durations of repeated punishment from that. My many smaller injuries stopped healing, added up, stopped recovering, and then it was even more obvious that something was not right.

I would like to race mountain bikes again in the old guy class. Motocross: not again, even the old guy class is too risky. To me its kind of pointless to compete for fun in something you once had seriously mastered in the past.


blueberrymuffin- I was hoping someone has some more experience with Serrapeptase here. I took it 1.5 months before and it did nothing that I could tell. I only took the recomendation stated on the bottle whatever that was. It was more common here in the past I think.
Posted 9/19/2016 4:34 PM (GMT 0)
astro, I have been taking serrapeptase for almost 10 years now, fairly large doses. I started taking it before I knew I had Lyme as it helped some of my symptoms presumably by lowering inflammation.

After struggling with bad tendonitis, hamstring, and neck issues for years eventually I got a Lyme diagnosis. I'm not sure how much the enzymes contributed to helping heal the musculoskeletal issues. I have read that East German olympic weightlifters took it after training sessions (probably chased it with some steroids).

My body is pretty much completely healed now, but I think it was more a result of killing resistant pockets of infection over time. I uncovered another one this summer sort of in the muscle between my shoulder blade and spinal cord on one side. Monolaurin caused this infection related trigger point to flare up, and then further anti-protozoals eliminated it over a month or two.

Prior to this I thought I had completely cleared my neck/back. I guess my experience is that despite 4 years of various antimicrobials, pockets of infection can still linger and cause musculoskeletal issues.

That's cool you raced back in the day. I was contemplating starting cyclocross racing this fall but decided that I shouldn't push it. Been doing some good bike rides non competitively though.
Posted 9/19/2016 4:45 PM (GMT 0)
Also someone mentioned Rolfing earlier. I did actually do the full 10 session program around 5 years ago. I had previously had ton a lot of physical therapy over the years with mixed results. I found Rolfing to be quite different. Rather than fix a particular local issue, it seems to change the overall balance of your body, maybe helping to stimulate general healing processes.
Posted 9/19/2016 4:48 PM (GMT 0)
Project what are pockets of infection and how do you know where you have them? And how do you deal with them afterwords?
Posted 9/19/2016 5:14 PM (GMT 0)
blueberrymuffin,

I know there has been a lot of debate recently over the role of autoimmunity and immune suppression in why people get and and remain sick. In my case, I think the biofilm / focal infection model seems to fit the facts better. Rather than being evenly distributed throughout my body, I have found that the Borrelia & co have been concentrated in certain spots that seem to be pockets of infection.

I believe that my immune system is actually still fairly strong, but just cannot get into these pockets effectively without some kind of assistance. With a regimen of biofilm busters and antimicrobial substances, you'll get these flare ups of local inflammation when one of these pockets is breached.

When this happens I notice that I have to also detox like crazy as the dam breaks on one of these areas. If the area is located near a muscle the muscle will seize up and become inflamed. After use of some antimicrobials over time, the area clears and if fully cleared it never bothers you again.

In my experience, the battle of Lyme has not been a matter of my army (immune system) being dysfunctional. It's more a matter of multiple castles that have been captured by the enemy. To win the war they need to be individually breached and retaken.
Posted 9/19/2016 5:38 PM (GMT 0)
project -

1)What anti-protozoals did you use.? Lyme comes with lots of bad stuff, not just the other usual co-infections bart ect.

2)Did you have hard knots that you could feel, or were they just tender like inflamation feels?

Rolfing is alway in the back of my mind. I'll have to read about it more. Its stays in the back since the cost is so high LOL. You know haw that is. Ya regular PT doesnt do much as you found out. I had good luck with active release ART, but it has limitations more to limbs, wont work on torso.

I dont think I get flares in areas, but the areas are hard and lumpy. Dry neeling release them only for a couple days- so I know some are hard knots, otherwise they would not release.

But some just dont fully release. I suppose it is possible to have remaining infection in these since some are white tissue (limited blood) areas that abx wont reach- maybe not even the deep seeking Flagil I used.

thanks
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