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How do you know if it's a herx?

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Posted 9/23/2016 4:07 PM (GMT 0)
Im not in the camp of believing everything bad is a herx. I've been increasing my knotweed and cat's claw (foundation formula) and had been feeling wired and tired. Yesterday, i was ridiculously overstimulated, like i drank a whole pot of coffee, and it lasted the whole night. Intense heart rate sweating, racing thoughts, paranoia, muscle pain etc.. It was intense.

I had very bad adrenal fatigue in the past and always did poorly with adaptogens- they would overstimulate me and crash me but never cause improvements.

If you are herx'ing, shouldn't you come out the other side a little better? I did all the detox stuff to help- coffee enema, epsom salt bath, charcoal- and they didnt touch it at all, which makes me question whats going on. I stopped for now
Posted 9/23/2016 4:18 PM (GMT 0)
I would encourage you to continue to detox, as it's a cumulative effect. The longer you do it, the more it helps.

I would encourage you to have a saliva test done to see what level your adrenals are functioning at now. As you may already suspect, it sounds like you are dealing with adrenal issues with those symptoms.

Generally speaking, a herx is just a worsening of current symptoms, or a fluish feeling, or sometimes new symptoms pop up during a herx. This makes it complicated to find out if it's a herx and the only way I know to find out is to increase the detoxing to see if it eases any symptoms after several days.
Posted 9/23/2016 4:54 PM (GMT 0)

Traveler said...
I would encourage you to continue to detox, as it's a cumulative effect. The longer you do it, the more it helps.

I would encourage you to have a saliva test done to see what level your adrenals are functioning at now. As you may already suspect, it sounds like you are dealing with adrenal issues with those symptoms.

Generally speaking, a herx is just a worsening of current symptoms, or a fluish feeling, or sometimes new symptoms pop up during a herx. This makes it complicated to find out if it's a herx and the only way I know to find out is to increase the detoxing to see if it eases any symptoms after several days.

Thanks, traveler. Yah im continuing the detox and it seems to have no effect.

Is overstimulation typical of knotweed and cat's claw? And can these herbs cause a herx?
Posted 9/23/2016 5:05 PM (GMT 0)
Yes, they can cause you to herx. Cat's claw raises immune function, is anti-inflammatory, and antiviral. Knotweed, while used primarily for endothelial protection, also has antibacterial, antiviral, antispirochetal, antifungal, anti-inflammatory and immunostimulant and immunomodulant properties.
Posted 9/23/2016 5:20 PM (GMT 0)
You may not feel better after the herx...you may just go back to how you were feeling pre-herx.

That's what happens to me.

Also, if the detoxing isn't alleviating the herx...then maybe drop back on the doses of the herbs.
That's another way to tell if it's a herx. That should tame it (along with the detoxing.)
Posted 9/23/2016 5:39 PM (GMT 0)
I didn't believe it but I've come to realize that the adrenals play a huge part in our healing. I've been talking to my doctor, assessing my symptoms, going back over old saliva test and comparing them to my symptoms. Guess what? You got it. My adrenals are worse than they were when all of this started (for that matter worse than just last month) and I feel as I've hit a plateau in healing. So I've just recently (as in 2 days ago) started working in my adrenals more. I've been doing all the supportive vitamins, but I've found I need more.

I really have a lot of respect for the adrenals now.
Posted 9/23/2016 5:50 PM (GMT 0)
Yep, we really need to pay attention to adrenal health!!

Each adrenal gland is comprised of two distinct structures—the outer part of the adrenal glands is called the adrenal cortex. The inner region is known as the adrenal medulla. The adrenal cortex and the adrenal medulla have very different functions. One of the main distinctions between them is that the hormones released by the adrenal cortex are necessary for life; those secreted by the adrenal medulla are not.

www.endocrineweb.com/endocrinology/overview-adrenal-glands
Posted 9/23/2016 5:53 PM (GMT 0)
i've been sick 2 years and i still can't differentiate what may be a herx versus not. also keep in mind your immune system is constantly killing off these invaders and therefore doing the same thing as stuff you take to kill them off. i for one have no symptom patterns in the last 18 months so i'm just as stumped as you are!
Posted 9/23/2016 5:59 PM (GMT 0)
I think if we have a high bacterial load (with lyme and co-infections) - that even in between the herxes...we still are very symptomatic. That seems to be the case with me.
I have lost many symptoms...but I still feel like crap many days.


I don't think it's usually a side effect from the herbs or antibiotics...not in my case anyway.
Posted 9/23/2016 6:00 PM (GMT 0)
I think we do a fairly reasonable job in helping people figure out if it's a reaction to the meds/herbs - considering we aren't doctors and haven't even seen the person - but it requires a lot of "self examination" and learning your own body in order for the person to try to determine if it's a reaction to an herb/med or if it's a herx. Of course, any time it's obvious allergic response (hives, swelling of face/throat and other symptoms), the person should always stop whatever med/herb it is and get to a doctor or urgent care facility immediately.

I took me years of living with these infections to learn my body well enough to usually know if it's a herx or a reaction to the herbs that I'm using - and even then I can be wrong. This is not an exact science, even for the most advanced LLMD's.
Posted 9/23/2016 6:27 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks for the responses guys. If you are herx'ing tho, shouldn't you come out the other side better eventually? My symptoms are so close to an allergy i never know- adrenaline dumps, weezing, heart palpitations, sweating. Never any breathing issues tho

1000Daisies said...

I do believe herx may be over used and thus sometimes possibly confused with adverse reactions to medications or herbs. I think this can be very confusing sometimes to be able to tell the difference.

I fully agree with this, in my experience anytime i feel worse and try to push through i just end up doing damage and never improve anything.
Posted 9/23/2016 6:28 PM (GMT 0)
Also, i have to ask- how soon after dosage would a herx typically start? For me symptoms start within 1-2 minutes and increase or stay steady throughout the following day
Posted 9/23/2016 6:29 PM (GMT 0)
Which is why I discourage members from "pushing through". When we are having a lot of difficulties, it's the body trying to tell us something, but with these infections, it could be any number of things and we have to either learn to "read" our body or just be patient and go through all the possible issues and eliminate them one by one.
Posted 9/24/2016 12:22 AM (GMT 0)
I just have trouble undertanding when people say they herx for weeks or months on a particular supplement, then they eventually stop it and have no reported improvement. Wouldn't that mean it wasn't a herx then?
Posted 9/24/2016 12:39 AM (GMT 0)
Not necessarily. I believe that sometimes we force our bodies to accept something that it either doesn't need at that time or truly doesn't want and that in and of itself can produce negative reactions. If this is the case, how can one improve if that substance were antagonizing the body all along. In this case, I can see how sometimes you can be worse.
Posted 9/24/2016 12:42 AM (GMT 0)

Aerose91 said...
I just have trouble undertanding when people say they herx for weeks or months on a particular supplement, then they eventually stop it and have no reported improvement. Wouldn't that mean it wasn't a herx then?

Not necessarily...if the bacterial load is still very high in the body...it could take longer before you feel better.

Herxing simply means you are killing off more toxins than you are getting rid of...overloading the body with them...which increases the symptoms.
But, you may still experience those symptoms after the herx subsides - as you did prior to the herx.

Eventually, you will get to the point where you are feeling improvements...

That's my take on it anyway.
Posted 9/24/2016 1:51 AM (GMT 0)
And don't forget the theory on biotoxins just recirculating and recirculating, causing you to thing that you have an active infection when its just old toxins being released from fat stores during exercise or other reasons. Makes your head spin.
Posted 9/24/2016 4:07 AM (GMT 0)
I appreciate the input, guys
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