Can HERBS only really bring down bacteria load? Getting worried

Huddie said...
Healrom,

Thank you so much. Love the hopeful stories of healing on herbs. I cannot tolerate JK so do Stephania instead -do you that will work? I will have to add in CC and Andropgraphis eventually.

No problem. Lol, i'm not healed myself (I'd like). But at least the herbs succeed to eliminate the spirochetes of my blood. And it's already a good thing.

I was under doxycycline, azithromycine, tinidazole, etc during a big number of months, and despise that I was still seeing the spiros in my blood...

My personal experience with ABX:

I'm bias towards herbs, however as a man of science, I do understand how and why ABX can be effective and when it works, it works. Not only does it work it works "faster" than herbs.

I give credit to ABX for the first "shock and awe" strikes that were effective. It aided in me going from 0% to about 60%. But their are significant cons to ABX.

Like the real shock and awe campaign (for you history buffs out there) it "worked" to a measurable extent but then also created consequential chaos.

It lowered my already over worked immune system. At some point your immune system takes a back seat because it sees the ABX doing all the heavy lifting on the front lines (not a good thing for many obvious reasons). ABX then acts like a biological mercenary with no allegiance to anyone, it just kills everything it comes in contact with including the good bacteria that we need. It helicopters in like rambo, between two fighting factions (borrelia and healthy microbes that fight and compete with borrelia and other bad bacteria) and mows down both sides, as your immune system on the other side of hill looks on at the carnage and says "yea, we'll let them worked that out".

ABX can also be hard on the liver, which can cause it's own health complication.

And lastly, highly evolved and sophisticated bacteria like borrelia can quickly evolve to become resistant, as quickly as the very next generation. Borrelia, as a survival evolutionary adaptation has "learned" to not stay in the blood stream where they are most vulnerable from the immune system and ABX. Borrelia can hide in bones and tissue, away from the blood. Through evolution, those Borrelia cells that stayed in the blood stream died before reproduction those that hid survived and reproduced, thus passing on change in behavior to their off-spring (natural selection).

Herbs can go beyond the blood stream.

My opinion is use ABX for more acute, "life and death" situations, not chronic infections (for all the reasons I mentioned above).

Not preaching just my personal take.

"Herbs can go beyond the blood stream."

There are antibiotics that go beyond the blood stream..that permeate the blood/brain barrier.

Antibiotics can also get to joints and bones to clear infections.

Huddie - if you're sensitive taking the herbs...you will most likely be sensitive to the antibiotics.

From my experience...the antibiotics have been more difficult to take than the herbs.

Of course I don't know for sure...but those are my thoughts.

If you want to try the antibiotics - ...you can always stop after a couple of months and settle on the herbs.

Girlie,

Thanks. I know, I am very sensitive to them. I was in bed almost the entire time I was on Doxcy. and that was just one abx. I dreaded it every day. Have no idea how I did the entire time. I was on here everyday wanting to quit. I just don't want to be ignorant and get much worse. I'll see how I can do when I go warrior on the herbs next week :) (for me that's adding in one or two more!)

Girlie said...
"Herbs can go beyond the blood stream."

There are antibiotics that go beyond the blood stream..that permeate the blood/brain barrier.

Antibiotics can also get to joints and bones to clear infections.

True. I stand corrected. But it's debatable how effectively (especially in comparison). Also are there pharmaceutical ABX that effectively destroy borrelia and co-infections biofilms and cysts? Real question. I would hope there is but I'm unaware of any.

Huddie said...
Girlie,

Thanks. I know, I am very sensitive to them. I was in bed almost the entire time I was on Doxcy. and that was just one abx. I dreaded it every day. Have no idea how I did the entire time. I was on here everyday wanting to quit. I just don't want to be ignorant and get much worse. I'll see how I can do when I go warrior on the herbs next week :) (for me that's adding in one or two more!)

Huddie at some point you will be able to go higher on the herbs. I'm sensitive too and I can remember when I could only do about 2-4 drops of things a day. So I decided I wasn't going to beat myself up. For those that I couldn't tolerate at all, I just put to the side and said I'll come back to that or I just won't do that one.

We'll all get there either abx, herbs, other protocols or a mixed bag. I think as you progress you'll just insert other things in as they make sense to you or your comfort level.

Krimpet,

Thank you. Great to know you went slow too. Are you only doing herbs now? How healed would you say you are? I hope a lot for your sake!

I am more or less in the same boat trying to battle some intermittent persistent air hunger and left face weakness, and new symptoms like facial/cheek/jaw discomfort.
All with Buhner herbs recommendations but this time also for Babs and Bart.
That is some long list.
But I also have this debate with myself if I should include abx again. I prefer not to.

I believe that the Gu Syndrome that Fruehauf speaks of, which is the only one I'm aware of being presented here, is being mischaracterized. While it does speak of using anti-parasitic treatments, a lot of focus is placed on the chronic inflammation aspect as well.

I also wanted to point out that especially in the chronic stages of these infections, abx don't necessarily work faster. We have many members here that have been in treatment using abx that have treated longer than I did on herbals alone - with my first treatment.

It's all a very personal choice, Huddie. There are simply no guarantees that for any one person herbs will work better or pharma abx would be a better choice - which is why I believe many use both.

We know that herbs do a much better job at things like supporting the immune function, but we are basically trying to compare apples to oranges. Herbs mainly help the body to fight off these infections, while abx kill the bacteria/parasites directly. Given enough support, the body can and does fight these infections - even if they are 40 years old - but, had my body had enough support when I was trying to use abx, would I have actually healed using pharma abx? That question remains unknown, and no one can answer that. But, because I had such a horrid time with them, I have chosen to stick with herbs.

When I got reinfected, I had the option of getting IV pharma abx. Boy did my doc's eyebrows shoot up when I refused, and she wanted to know why. I told her it comes down to experience - mine. I did not do well on pharma abx, and did extremely well on herbs, so I would stick to herbs.

The inhaler may or may not be of help to him - I've heard from those that have used them that it helps some and not others. Do check to be sure there are no steroids in the inhaler though - unless he is in real need of it. Then try to get him to use it sparingly. I hope this is short lived for him.

The real issue with Babesia is not that our lungs are inflamed and not working properly to get enough air into our lungs, but that the red blood cells are damaged/being destroyed and they carry the oxygen to our body.

And thank you for your kind words for Thanksgiving and enjoying my family!!! They are all still asleep right now, so I'm cheating and working! LOL!

Huddie,

I'm really sorry but I have to lock this thread because it's gone to page 4.

Once threads hit 3 pages, our server starts to become challenged.

To continue the conversation, I suggest you start a new thread with the same title and then "Part 2"....and you could link this thread in your first post on the new thread.

Thanks so much for understanding ;)