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Question about herxing

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Posted 11/22/2016 12:56 PM (GMT 0)
I saw a Gastroenterologist about an infection (Streptococcus) that's in my stomach. I have tried several other strategies to try and improve my CFS through a doctor (methylation, adrenal/hormone support etc.) but nothing was helping. She did not think I will tolerate antibiotics, but I don't see what other choice I have: I feel like whatever infection I have is killing me.

The GI is putting me on Flagyl, Ampicillin and Nystatin.

I have two questions:

1. Can herxes be dangerous? I do not expect the treatment will be pleasant -- I only think it runs for 1-2 weeks, but expect I may need to go longer if it helps. Given I am in a physically weakened state, am I putting myself at risk, especially by starting 2 abx. at once? The GI is interested in gut dysbiosis, but not CFS per se, so I don't think he is really taking into account people having difficulty with herxes.

2. Is there anything in my reaction to abx. that might also tell me if I have Lyme or one of the co-infections? My doctor thinks I have Bartonella and sent me to get tested yesterday. Just wondering if Lyme/co-infections produce specific symptoms during die-off that distinguish them from other infections.

I am hoping the abx. will at least give me a clue about the kind of treatment I may need.
Posted 11/22/2016 1:19 PM (GMT 0)
Outscruff,

Sorry you are going through all of this. I understand your concern. I do not tolerate antibiotics well at all and herx from them. I was in bed almost the entire first month on Doxcy. I think you have added concern with your GI issues. I know the mods can help you a lot better than I can.

I want to say that Eluethero helped me so much with fatigue. You may want to try that.

Are you taking a good probiotic? You may need more support.

Are you detoxing? That will help you immensely. Some easy detoxes are Alka Seltzer Gold, dry brushing your skin, lemon-water, Yogi detox tea, activated charcoal tablets (which may help you feel much better), there are many more - there is a detox link in the very top thread.

Herxing can be dangerous but if you detox enough - you should be fine. I was/am very concerned about that but so far, when I have them, they aren't dangerous. Just uncomfortable - but it means you are healing.

Feel better and please keep us posted with how you are doing and what your test results reveal.
Posted 11/22/2016 1:29 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks. I'll look into Eleuthero. Not taking probiotics yet -- I think that happens after the abx. clear the gut infection.

I do coffee enemas + charcoal for detox.
Posted 11/22/2016 1:37 PM (GMT 0)
Outscruff,

How many coffee enemas do you do per week? That can make someone fatigued more fatigued. They don't work on everyone. I can't do them right now.

Give D-Limonese a try. I posted about how it helped my husband after one try.
Posted 11/22/2016 1:43 PM (GMT 0)
I do 3-6 a week. I haven't noticed I'm any less fatigued on the days I don't do them.
Posted 11/22/2016 2:11 PM (GMT 0)
Probiotics need to be taken concurrently with abx and herbs, but 2 hours after the dose of abx or herbs. Abx and certain herbs kill off the good bacteria in the gut, making room for the 'bad' bacteria to grow in numbers. Waiting until you are done with the abx or herbs will leave you open for more infections in the gut.

Yes, herxing can get severe enough to put a person's life in danger. Herxing is a mil cytokine storm. A severe cytokine storm is very much like anaphylaxis - and takes high dose steroids to bring under control.

Lyme and Bartonella treatments cause herxing.

Herxing is defined as an in erase in symptoms or new symptoms developing. So no one can really tell you if you will experience a specific set of symptoms, since it can exacerbate any symptoms.

This is why we always heavily suggest that members start each abx one at a time and at very low doses and build slowly, doing a lot to help the body detox and stay balanced, and not pushing the body into serious herxing.
Posted 11/22/2016 6:42 PM (GMT 0)
Out scruff - have you been to a LLMD yet?

I would start detoxing right away...

If you get an increase in symptoms (herx) - that is a clue that you are hitting a bacterial infection -
Is it Lyme? Is it Bart? Not always clear.


I know that prior to lyme - when I was on abx (which was very infrequent) through my life...I never felt worse when taking them...just better as it treated whatever I was taking them for.
Now, I can expect a herx when starting a new antibiotic for lyme and co's.
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