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Posted 11/23/2016 4:15 AM (GMT 0)
So I went over some test results with pcp yesterday and of course forgot exactly what he said, but essentially that my thyroid was fine. I searched the forum and what I can gather is that in range low or highlight still be an issue for people with Lyme so I thought I would put my numbers out there to see what you think.

Free T3 - 2.36 (2.18-3.98 PG/ML)
Free T4 - 1.32 (.76-1.46 NG/DL)
TSH 0.36 (.36-3.74 UIU/ML)
RF <10.0 (0-15IU/mL)

Not sure if anything can be gleaned from these.
These were taken in July so a bit out dated but the only reference point I have right now.

Thanks for your help.
Posted 11/23/2016 4:19 AM (GMT 0)
your TSH is borderline on the low side, but thyroid isn't my strong suit yet.

If this was in July, are you feeling the same or different from then?
Posted 11/23/2016 4:21 AM (GMT 0)
I feel different ina lot of ways. Most notable is my fatigue is back ina major way which could be a lot of things I know
Posted 11/23/2016 5:09 AM (GMT 0)
I'm not looking at your TSH- your free are what matter most.

Your not converting well enough from T4 to T3; thus your T3 is low most likely creating fatigue, muscle aches and digestive issues.

You need supplemental T3 hormone as your T4 is better than T3 in their ranges.

Q)Looks like your on a T4 med with the slightly low TSH mid T4 but low T3, are you? And did you do the blood draw really close to your last thyroid med ?(if your on med), thus the low TSH (with only mid frees).
Posted 11/23/2016 5:25 AM (GMT 0)
Astroman- thanks for the reply. I am not on any thyroid meds. I guess that is the question. Should I be?

Thanks.
Posted 11/23/2016 5:55 AM (GMT 0)
Well as you have guessed by my first comment, your #'s are a little odd. Your frees resemble a TSH that should be higher than .36.

Your reading the decimal in .36 correctly, right?

If all those # are correct, then this can be an example of why the TSH test is known to not be very accurate.

I think you should re-test for results comparison. Blood draw at the same time of day too, the body has hormone daily/hourly cycles, so same time is important.

Your T3 is in the bottom 1/4 of the range. If tests revile similar results, just know that some people only take a little T3 and feel better. . It is hard to find a Dr who will do that. But if this is your llmd, convincing might not be too difficult. The convincing part will be the low TSH.

If you do suppliment T3, then you will most likely be one of those who will then have a TSH that looks hyper and drop under the range.

There are those with an undetectable TSH when their frees are in a good healthy percent (1/2 to upper 1/3 of the ranges).

Unfortunately a lot of thyroid treatment is trial and error when lab levels are questionable.
Posted 11/23/2016 10:49 AM (GMT 0)
astroman had the same comment in regard to my thyroid numbers and questioned if i was on a t4 med as well (im not)- i was also in bottom third of T3

so we can throw out the tsh correct? that is measuring the signal the pituitary is sending to thyroid only?

so is it common in lyme for people to not be able to convert the t4 to t3? and its the t3 that really is important?

also i tried to see an endo, but they wont even see me, as me tsh is normal, and only the t3 is off, and as astro said its hard to find a doctor to treat....so what are we to do? are there any natural paths we can take to get better conversion of t4 to t3? or is it just through treating lyme?
Posted 11/23/2016 2:54 PM (GMT 0)
A car will still go down the road if one tire is only half filled with air- but might pull to one side and wear the opposite tire.

Low T3 happens in otherwise healthy people too, not just lymies. I have seen this with others on thyroid forums in the past. But it was kind of rare. T3 matters. No humour intended..

I have known athletes who treated t3 and felt better. You dont know till you try. But with lyme, do you just wait? There is no correct answer. That said T3 med is short lasting, unlike T4. Easy to try in very low doses.

Again TSH can be useless in some people. Very few Drs know this.

Limited thyroidians I have seen here, but there are a few with this odd pattern of low T3 with "satifactory" TSH and "OK" T4. Coincidence? ..............Not enough here to know.

Might this get better after Lyme treatment? Guess you'll find out one way or another.

Some lymies might automatically say yes. Unfortunantly that is an automatic reaction/reply/assumption with a few people in the lyme community. You can't just assume everthing is caused by lyme. But keep an open mind.

Endo docs are terrible for thyroid- the equivilant to an infectious disease Dr to lymies. An open minded LLMD or natural path is better help if one cannot find a regular Dr who is open minded enough to treat thyroid per frees and not tsh.

Post Edited (astroman) : 11/23/2016 8:48:37 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 11/23/2016 3:03 PM (GMT 0)
Astro,

Wow you are quite knowledgeable with the thyroid. Impressive board I must say.

So spot on about endos and thyroid. My holistic internist who specializes in hormones figured out the T3/T4 -Hashimotos, after both GYN/Endocrine specialist told me I was fine.

I take T3/T4 and will be having it checked next week to see how lyme has changed it. So far in Sept. it was still ok.

I would see a hormone specialist for this who works with a compounding pharmacy.
Posted 11/23/2016 3:46 PM (GMT 0)
Many of us reach the point of manditory self learning for optimal heath function..

Depending on conventional Western medicine Drs for chronic conditions can be health suicide.

It should not have to be this way.
Posted 11/23/2016 3:54 PM (GMT 0)
Your mouth to God's ears.

Could write an entire post on this, as many of us could. Went to gyn to say something was wrong in my head (thought it was hormonal at first). Was told it's just part of aging. Went to neurologist and even had a cat scan/MRI - all fine probably somatic. Went to internist and was told "Well at this point you may want to speak to someone as you may be creating things in your head." Even after being bitten (reinfected) my doctor said "I wouldn't even worry about it. Most ticks don't even carry lyme and you are super healthy."

My son: Won't even bore you with details. Numerous doctors. I kept asking "Any chance this could be lyme?" His pediatrician replied "You really have to relax, there is no way he has lyme, he's healthy." And of course, I got the look that conveys that I am crazy and borrowing trouble.
Posted 11/23/2016 6:17 PM (GMT 0)
astro- question i think i know the answer to.....t3 and t4 meds are by prescription correct? because in my state naturopaths cant prescribe prescription meds....maybe i can convince my LLMD i guess ;/
Posted 11/23/2016 6:38 PM (GMT 0)
."t3 and t4 meds are by prescription correct? "

- YES, Rx only. Suppliments with bovine or horse thyroid parts are not the same.

"..........in my state naturopaths cant prescribe prescription meds "

- That varies state to state. Guess some states they can.

An LLMD should understand what your trying to accomplish.
Posted 11/23/2016 11:27 PM (GMT 0)
Astroman - those numbers are correct. I double checked. So short of convincing my doctor that this might be an issue and having him help me I am stuck between a rock and a hard place? Seeing as he is the one that has told me repeatedly that it is fine I'm going to say this is going to be a tall order
Posted 11/24/2016 12:58 AM (GMT 0)
Before jumping into thyroid meds you may want to try herbs first to see if you can aid your body in converting. There are many herbs that support thyroid function. Also sometimes it can be an iodine issue. You may want to also have that checked. There are so many variable when dealing with the thyroid and sometimes getting thyroid meds initially may not be necessary. I would look to a naturopath that specializes in thyroid function.
Posted 11/24/2016 1:27 AM (GMT 0)
Thank you Krimpet. Yeah, I'm not about to do that yet. However, I'm having troubling finding an LLMD let alone a naturopath that specializes in thyroid function. Plus, like most of us, financial limitations are playing a key role in my treatment, or better yet, a lack of treatment right now.
Posted 11/24/2016 6:13 AM (GMT 0)
LG- do you know if your selenium and zinc levels are good? Those minerals help in T4 to T3 conversion.

Liver health is also important. 20% of converted T3 results from the liver alone. The remaining 80% is from a multitude of other areas. Killing these bugs and what we take to achieve that can raise liver alt and ast.

Know your adrenal health? Ever do a 24 hr adrenal saliva test?

There is more info online than before on t4 to t3 convert issues but still no break-thru info. Same old same old info, as follows:

There are 5 important areas that need to be assessed and addressed if you want better conversion of T4 to T3, and they are all familiar with lymies:

1. Liver Detoxification and Other Metabolic Pathways

2. Increasing T3 and Lowering Reverse T3 Levels - RT3 testing

3. Gut Health and Thyroid Hormone Conversion - Gut health is key to everything it seams

4. Adrenal Stress Can Cause Lower T3 and Higher Reverse T3 - Again RT3 testing

5. Systemic Inflammation Lowers T3 - Good luck with that one while treating lyme

In a non-lymie, the above 5 could possibly be non-existant.

Post Edited (astroman) : 11/23/2016 11:20:35 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 11/24/2016 1:29 PM (GMT 0)
Astro, if I can just get your quick thoughts on something (without higjacking to much :p)....

Does a mid-range Free T3 + a bottom of range Free T4 indicate anything?
Posted 11/24/2016 4:23 PM (GMT 0)
As much as no one likes hijacking threads, always happens on thyroid posts. One the plus side, everyone learns.

Mustard Seed said...
Astro, ...........

Does a mid-range Free T3 + a bottom of range Free T4 indicate anything?

1)For people NOT on thyroid med:

Yes it means your body converts T4 to T3 like its supposed to.

Low in T4 is more common. Improving just T4 hormone is easier.

2)For people on natural thyroid:

This also happens to people on natural thyroid replacement since pig thyroid has a higher T3 ratio. Some people just max out their T3 level on natural thyroid and stay with lower T4, and are fine. Some add synthetic T4 to up it.

In supplementation T4 can bind to food proteins in the stomach and blood with leaky gut. T3 never binds to proteins. This is why taking natural thyroid subliminally works better. Some people dis this practice. They are wrong, as it works, and I have proved it in my own experimentation via symptoms and lab results.

Its all trial and error, to some extent, what our cells want is not the same, it their food.
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