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Posted 12/13/2016 3:47 AM (GMT 0)
Hello all,

It has been a long time since I posted here. I have been feeling rather stable in most of symptoms but still have my tired and achy days.

The one symptom I have that keeps lingering is painless, but disturbing joint cracking. It is in my right knee when I walk, it cracks everytime I move it. The other place is in my lower back, it feels like my tail bone is clicking while I move. This is fairly consistent and is usually worse at the end of the day.

I took collagen powder, and biosil, I used glucosamine chondriton. I don't know what else I can do, is this still active lyme or is this some kind of leftover damage? Appreciate anyone's insight or tips.

BTW I am currently not treating with anything anymore, I'm on a bit of a Herb Break, I plan to start up again in January with Buhner's Protocol.

Thanks! :)

Posted 12/13/2016 3:53 AM (GMT 0)
I'll be waiting to hear some replies on this as well. As soon as my order gets here, I'll be trying to hit the collagen rebuild as much as I can afford.

I've been popping and crackling for a long time, so it's going to be quite a long, uphill battle. I do hope to at least find that it has stopped in my neck, because of my severe osteoporosis, it makes me fear my spine is going to crumble when it does that.

You know, I was diagnosed with degenerative disc disease about halfway into my 31 years with this (false positive)Lyme. That's a fairly normal old age disorder, but for someone that was only about 45 when she got the diagnosis, I have a good feeling this isn't natural.
Posted 12/13/2016 4:07 AM (GMT 0)
Actual joints making a cracking / popping noise can be the nitrogen build up releasing. This is the noise heard during chiropractic adjustments.

More of a "clicking" sound is most likely tension imbalance of tendons that are attached to the joint- making it tight. Kind of like a rusty hinge on an old door. In worse cases the tension is also felt as a tight pain. That's wear manual tendon work helps. Release, soften, and re-lengthen the tendon, and the noise goes away. Many people get this, its not just a lyme thing.
Posted 12/13/2016 4:12 AM (GMT 0)
evianangel I was diagnosed with osteoarthritis when I was in my 30's. My knees began cracking when I was about 12 and the doctor told my mom I had the knees of a 10 year football player.

When I had a full body bone scan in my 30's there was not a place that they didn't find osteoarthritis. It is just wear and tear and I have a lot of noise in my joints when I do stuff.

I was in high school and I would cough when walking up stairs so the boys would not hear my knees crack.

Some of us just get it sooner than others.

Now, I am 65 and I still am very mobile and stuff still makes noise and I don't go get a test to see how bad it is. I can tell you, especially when the weather changes.

I don't do drugs, but the doctor has given me gel topical ibuprofen, but it still goes through your liver and I will wait until I am way old for that, thank you.

Lyme made mine get worse, but once I was healed, I was back to the "normal worse." LOL!!

I hope your is temporary also.

*
Posted 12/13/2016 4:25 AM (GMT 0)
High dose efa ,biotin ,and bvt has helped ..

lots of vit c collegen and msm ..

also frankenscence oil and dmso has helped inflammation

i sould and move like im 90
Posted 12/13/2016 4:25 AM (GMT 0)
Listening and caring. My thought with symptoms that linger after treatment - either something hasn't been hit up in the treatment process in way of co-infections, or perhaps something else going on. So sorry for the bother you are experiencing. I too wonder if it isn't just permanent damage from the bacterial infection. Julymorning, Astroman, and Peteza all offered really great thoughts. I don't have anything to add other than I did notice the popping and creaking in my neck and back has lessened around 75%. I'll take it. Let us know about what you sort out it might be and how you plan to treat it. I found this science article which indicates that some damage with lyme arthritis can indeed be permanent. /www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2223850/ Geeshhh... blech!
Posted 12/13/2016 4:43 AM (GMT 0)
Evian - glad you came back for a visit. :-)

If I'm remembering correctly..you didn't have Lyme symptoms very long before treatment...right?

If Im correct..then I'm thinking it isn't permanent damage.


But, is it possible that you didn't treat long enough? You didn't treat very long, did you?
Posted 12/13/2016 5:33 AM (GMT 0)
Thanks to everyone for your speedy replies. I have missed you guys!
I guess this is more common that I thought. I believe mine is from the tendons being tight, because it is more of a clicking amd a stuck feeling than a crackle crunch. So odd. It could be osteoarthritis or it could be damage from Lyme getting into my muscles and tendons making then tight or something?
I treated about 4 months after I experienced symptoms. Have been using herbs off and on since may 2016.
Im doing exercise but perhaps there is specific exercises I should do for my back and knees.
I used the great lakes collagen and noticed some improvements in my general well being so it is good stuff.
Hope you all can get to the bottom of it too. I am quite a bit better than I was but still not 100%. I feel like I have fibromyalgia. Then some days im okay.
Anyway thanks again! I'll be sure to try your suggestions.
Posted 12/13/2016 6:40 AM (GMT 0)
In my opinion, "permanent damage" becomes permanent once you give up.

Two LLMDs (one of which is a medical author) and other qualified skeletal Drs gave up on me saying its permanent.

They were quitters.

Not all heal the same way. So its important to try different paths, or combinations. These LLMD's are not all what some make them up to be. Some forget, they are just people.

My whole body hurt. A lot. Off and on for 20 years, then real bad for one decade straight. Had lots of "hardened" tendons. Fixed many on my own, as ABX stopped or slowed the destruction, but did not heal it - it takes a long time though. I just went fatbiking in 7 inches of new snow. That would have been impossible for me 10 to 15 years ago. In this process, Ive fallen a step or two back, only to regain forward momentum months latter. Just started a collagen trial too, hope it speeds things up.
Posted 12/13/2016 10:06 AM (GMT 0)
I would say that the noises are most likely coming from active infection. That infection doesn't have to be from Borrelia, Lyme changes our normal flora and allows an over growth of our "normal" bacteria and they become pathogens. These bacteria have metabolic needs and since they have very few metabolic processes, they steal what they need from us. When concerning the synovial fluid of the joints, several things are going on. Nitric oxide is being produced to reduce pathogen load and that process leads to inflammation. The NO is a gas and its reabsorption can create a noise upon dislocation. Another issue is the active process for making collagen. There are phosphotidylserines that are exposed on the collagen surface as well as inside the cellular membrane and their presence has been diminished. Collagen is a potent activator of the procoagulant response by activating tyrosine kinase which alters intracellular calcium levels and when surface phosphotidylserine levels are diminished, the tyrosine kinase can't phosphorylate properly. There's a lot more to it than this but it may lead to a deficiency of phosphotidylcholine.

Phosphotidylserine from plants differs from phosphotidylserine from animals. The fatty acids linking them together are different. IMO, and this is only a theory I've postulated (although I've backed it up through experimentation), the difference in animal phosphotidyleserine and plant PS is in how it allows us to alter (buffer?) the acidic inflammatory process that is occurring in the synovium. Plants are not a good source of phosphotidyleserine so by reducing animal protein intake, perhaps I've reduced my body's ability to have inflammation in those joints? In a nutshell, I hurt less in my joints when I eat an alkaline diet based on plants verses an acidic diet based on animal protein.

There are many studies that show that phosphotidylserine increases cognition and would benefit someone with dementia or cognitive dysfunction. I have often said our disease (and age) decreases nutrients from our body. Perhaps our mental issues are derived from a phosphotidylserine deficiency? Supplement and increase memory and inflammation or decrease intake and reduce inflammation? What to do.......
Posted 12/13/2016 3:40 PM (GMT 0)
I've had that off and on for as long as I can remember as well. People used to comment on it all the time because they could actually hear it across the room.

I still deal with it, whenever I'm infected. My hips and lower back can get really sore from all that movement (or lack thereof, actually). I started doing what Astroman is talking about and it's helped - it would help more if I did it more regularly, but life has a way of getting in the way of taking care of myself at times.

I would encourage you to try some of the things that Astroman is suggesting. It's helped my hips, my lower back (down near the tailbone, like yours), my shoulders/arms, and my neck. I need to step it up and help my knees and feet now though.
Posted 12/14/2016 1:27 AM (GMT 0)
Guess I didnt say what I did. Sounding like a broken record I'll summarize:

tendon and muscle myofascial release with foam workout roller, golf and lacross balls (for tendon areas)

theracane for hamstrings, back and some glute areas

Post Edited (astroman) : 12/13/2016 6:31:10 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 12/14/2016 1:35 AM (GMT 0)
I understand the struggle.

My knee, especially the left knee, use to crack with EVERY step. It was highly annoying. Especially in quiet places where people can notice.

I did collagen supps and glucosamine. It helped. There's a lot less cracking but it definitely hasn't eliminated the problem.

Maybe it's just a matter of time?

Interesting that you ask is this "lyme damage". Because I have hypothesized about this as well. With only a few mild symptoms, I believe I'm in the "repair" stage, rather than treating a "active" lyme infection.

Since we never 100% eradicate lyme from our systems at some point I believe a crossroads appear where the focus is more about maintaining health and repairing lyme damage than attacking lyme. I too have recently stopped herbs and I'm only taking supportive and repairing supplements.

So I understand the boat that you're in.
Posted 12/14/2016 4:47 AM (GMT 0)
Ditto, my knuckles on left hand click and lock up, as well as my hips. My clavicle, shoulders, knees, and neck make the rice krispies noises!!!

I use a product mde from the shea nut extract, called FLEX NOW. Ive experimented three times now, what happens when I stop using flex now DAILY, the cracking and stiffness come back.

I also consume 3 eggs daily, and HIGH dose Omega 3's.

I found out that My MSH(melanocyte stimulating hormone) that the hypothalamas produces, was well, NOT producing. An absence of MSH theres no longer messages from thebrain to vital processes in the production of hormones that stimulate things such as collagen production.

Its the HIGH level of biotoxins in the brain that effect MSH production. So, cholestryamine grabs hold of biotoxins in the bowel therefore biotoxins arent recirculated in the body.

My MSH went from undetectable to low in range just after 3 weeks of proper detox using HIGH omega 3's and cholestryamine. The hope is that my body will resume proper production of all the good stuff that keepz our joints 'oiled'!!!
Posted 12/13/2018 5:59 AM (GMT 0)
Bump. Was wondering if anyone has additional information to add?

A lot of my symptoms are decreasing now, but I still have joint cracking in most of my joints.

Ex: Hips, knees, neck, elbows (grinding on the outside), shoulders, spine, wrists (sometimes).

I have tried glucosamine consistently, but nothing else for a long period of time. I was thinking of restarting BVT on the joints.
Posted 12/13/2018 6:11 AM (GMT 0)
PS:

Does this look helpful for joint pain?

https://www.amazon.com/tendlite%c2%ae-advanced-pain-relief-cleared/dp/b004qecau4/ref=sr_1_7_a_it?ie=utf8&qid=1544681011&sr=8-7&keywords=ultrasound+machine
Posted 12/13/2018 7:35 AM (GMT 0)
Strange - most of the posts in this thread are not from today...but quite awhile ago - as in a year...or more. The dates are wrong.
Posted 12/13/2018 5:27 PM (GMT 0)
glucosamine feeds lyme. Out of all of them, for me, it increased my symptoms the most. I would never ever recommend it to anyone who is treating lyme. However if you are taking glucosamine and not getting symptoms perhaps you defeated the disease?? That would be wonderful news. I would stay off it for a while though

Turmeric fixed all of my cracking joints -- going back 15 years. I am more flexible -- without working out at all, then ever. 1 Tablespoon morning/night, with 1/4 tea spoon black pepper. With oil like coconut oil or 2x fish oil.
For at least 10 days before checking if it works. Then I would stay on it indefinitely.

Just get a good brand of turmeric if you are worried about contamination. I also take Spirulina. I would not buy Curcumin extract. Real curcumin extract is very very expensive, most of what is sold is fake. If its $60-80 a bottle, it's probably real. If its $15, you're getting fake extract. It might even say 95% curcumin, but if you read it closely, it saids that 5% of it is 95% curcumin, net 4% -- then average that with the remainder of the stuff is 95% real turmeric-- Which normal turmeric has 3%, it means NOTHING. You want raw powder turmeric. If you buy Curcumin extract and take one pill a day, it does nothing, this is why: you've been scammed. Just take normal turmeric at large dosages with black pepper and oil.
Posted 12/14/2018 6:57 AM (GMT 0)

oregonhay said...
glucosamine feeds lyme. Out of all of them, for me, it increased my symptoms the most. I would never ever recommend it to anyone who is treating lyme. However if you are taking glucosamine and not getting symptoms perhaps you defeated the disease?? That would be wonderful news. I would stay off it for a while though

Turmeric fixed all of my cracking joints -- going back 15 years. I am more flexible -- without working out at all, then ever. 1 Tablespoon morning/night, with 1/4 tea spoon black pepper. With oil like coconut oil or 2x fish oil.
For at least 10 days before checking if it works. Then I would stay on it indefinitely.

Just get a good brand of turmeric if you are worried about contamination. I also take Spirulina. I would not buy Curcumin extract. Real curcumin extract is very very expensive, most of what is sold is fake. If its $60-80 a bottle, it's probably real. If its $15, you're getting fake extract. It might even say 95% curcumin, but if you read it closely, it saids that 5% of it is 95% curcumin, net 4% -- then average that with the remainder of the stuff is 95% real turmeric-- Which normal turmeric has 3%, it means NOTHING. You want raw powder turmeric. If you buy Curcumin extract and take one pill a day, it does nothing, this is why: you've been scammed. Just take normal turmeric at large dosages with black pepper and oil.

Hi OregonHay. Thanks for the reply. Do you buy tumeric at the grocery store? I have tried curcumin before but to no avail. So many things feed lyme that I'm not worried about the glucosamine. That is why they choose us as hosts sad
Posted 12/15/2018 2:58 AM (GMT 0)
MSM was effective for me but caused insomnia, boron is also said to be helpful.
Posted 12/15/2018 3:17 AM (GMT 0)

Girlie said...
Strange - most of the posts in this thread are not from today...but quite awhile ago - as in a year...or more. The dates are wrong.

Yes, one post of mine says today, despite its clear edit date from 2016!

----------------------------------------------

My neck made crunching noises and felt "gravely" with every move for a few years, now its only upper back if I intentional try to crack it.

Figured out my "heavy" left shoulder that was pulling on my neck was the AC (collar bone) joint. It would make snapping noises sometimes. The collar bone should move a little, mines getting more mobile as I work on it.
Posted 12/15/2018 6:54 AM (GMT 0)

acarined said...
MSM was effective for me but caused insomnia, boron is also said to be helpful.

Do you have a recommended dose for boron? I have been drinking borax water lately. Great source of boron!
Posted 12/18/2018 9:14 AM (GMT 0)
Bump
Posted 12/18/2018 10:38 AM (GMT 0)

Sheeks175 said...
Bump

Not sure if you noticed - but his email is enabled - you could always send him one.
Posted 12/18/2018 6:58 PM (GMT 0)
I don't know what doses are used for boron.
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