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Need ABX advice about son's treatment

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Posted 2/14/2017 5:37 PM (GMT 0)
Hi guys,

My son is on Mino/Zith/BB-MC Babs 1 and Jernigan Anti-Tox MS.

His symptoms as of yesterday were: back pain (possibly kidney), overall malaise, cough, headaches, depressed (I’m taking him to a Lyme Psych. tomorrow), constant stomach ache/nausea, phobias over eating and going to sleep. Giant fear of herxing because he hates them. Who doesn't.

Yesterday he was awful, hadn't slept and just in pain. I gave him nothing. No herbs and no abx. He feels so good today and was able to sleep 12 hours last night.

LLMD suggested switching to oral Augmentin or once a week injections of Biacillin (something like that). My son has never taken penicillin and my husband is allergic so don't want to try that.

How is Augmentin for Lyme? Anyone here try it?

I get blood results back today or tomorrow on whether he has MTHR mutation. I looked at old tests and I have single mutation, so good chance he has that too.

Still waiting for Hansa to call back. So lost on what to do. He doesn't seem to be progressing on treatment thus far. This is week 14.

Thanks.
Posted 2/14/2017 5:45 PM (GMT 0)
I think you should switch him to herbs or iv abx.

The herbs are more gentle so you can increase them more so at your desired rate. And so obviously people do heal on them all the time as you have seen testimonies. You can also use specific herbs for psych and neuro symptoms that bother him the most.

Iv abx tend to get rid of psychiatric symptoms extremely rapidly. A lot of people do better on then when they couldn't tolerate oral because iv antibiotics have anti-inflammatory properties so in some people herxing is reduced. This happened to three of my friends. But others like traveler had such a bad experience with them I don't know what is the difference how to prevent a bad experience on them or if it's just your body that responds however it chooses.

The injections are very powerful and kill a lot but willcause a worse herx.

Honestly the most important thing right now is to figure out the mthfr because if he has that his detox capability is like 70% impaired and he's full of poison.
Posted 2/14/2017 5:51 PM (GMT 0)
Huddie it sounds like he's on too much meds to function. One option is to back off the amount daily and/or pulse until he finds a manageable medium. It took me a solid 9 months to make progress on my bart type symptoms so either give it more time or try something else.

The Penicillins like any other abx work well for some not so well for others. My wife did Amoxicillin for a few months and i think 6 weeks of Bicillin shots 1x a week and it did nothing.

Rifampin might be worth a try does very well on Lyme spirochetes, Lyme persisters and many gram negative bacteria like Bart.

In terms of MTHR mutation I'm of the belief that this information isn't all that useful (I know others will disagree). To me how useful this information is is on the same par as how much mycotoxins are affecting you. There's just not a lot known on how these mutations really effect you.
Posted 2/14/2017 5:56 PM (GMT 0)

Huddie said...
Hi guys,

My son is on Mino/Zith/BB-MC Babs 1 and Jernigan Anti-Tox MS.

His symptoms as of yesterday were: back pain (possibly kidney), overall malaise, cough, headaches, depressed (I’m taking him to a Lyme Psych. tomorrow), constant stomach ache/nausea, phobias over eating and going to sleep. Giant fear of herxing because he hates them. Who doesn't.

Yesterday he was awful, hadn't slept and just in pain. I gave him nothing. No herbs and no abx. He feels so good today and was able to sleep 12 hours last night.

LLMD suggested switching to oral Augmentin or once a week injections of Biacillin (something like that). My son has never taken penicillin and my husband is allergic so don't want to try that.

How is Augmentin for Lyme? Anyone here try it?

I get blood results back today or tomorrow on whether he has MTHR mutation. I looked at old tests and I have single mutation, so good chance he has that too.

Still waiting for Hansa to call back. So lost on what to do. He doesn't seem to be progressing on treatment thus far. This is week 14.

Thanks.

I was on amoxicillin - for 3 months (or so?) and I found it easy to tolerate. Amoxy is in Augmentin.
You do know that amoxy is in the Penicillin class, right?

I'm sorry he's having a rough time... but the fact that he felt better when he backed off on meds is good.
Posted 2/14/2017 5:59 PM (GMT 0)

Huddie said...
Hi guys,

My son is on Mino/Zith/BB-MC Babs 1 and Jernigan Anti-Tox MS.

His symptoms as of yesterday were: back pain (possibly kidney), overall malaise, cough, headaches, depressed (I’m taking him to a Lyme Psych. tomorrow), constant stomach ache/nausea, phobias over eating and going to sleep. Giant fear of herxing because he hates them. Who doesn't.

Yesterday he was awful, hadn't slept and just in pain. I gave him nothing. No herbs and no abx. He feels so good today and was able to sleep 12 hours last night.

LLMD suggested switching to oral Augmentin or once a week injections of Biacillin (something like that). My son has never taken penicillin and my husband is allergic so don't want to try that.

How is Augmentin for Lyme? Anyone here try it?

I get blood results back today or tomorrow on whether he has MTHR mutation. I looked at old tests and I have single mutation, so good chance he has that too.

Still waiting for Hansa to call back. So lost on what to do. He doesn't seem to be progressing on treatment thus far. This is week 14.

Thanks.

Augmentin is the same thing as Amoxicillin. I have a bottle of it sitting here, was supposed to take with the Flagyl, had to quit Flagyl so never too Amox.

Did you decide to not have him tested for that shortage I linked to you a couple of times? (And I cannot remember what that was right now).
Posted 2/14/2017 6:05 PM (GMT 0)

julymorning said...

Huddie said...
Hi guys,

My son is on Mino/Zith/BB-MC Babs 1 and Jernigan Anti-Tox MS.

His symptoms as of yesterday were: back pain (possibly kidney), overall malaise, cough, headaches, depressed (I’m taking him to a Lyme Psych. tomorrow), constant stomach ache/nausea, phobias over eating and going to sleep. Giant fear of herxing because he hates them. Who doesn't.

Yesterday he was awful, hadn't slept and just in pain. I gave him nothing. No herbs and no abx. He feels so good today and was able to sleep 12 hours last night.

LLMD suggested switching to oral Augmentin or once a week injections of Biacillin (something like that). My son has never taken penicillin and my husband is allergic so don't want to try that.

How is Augmentin for Lyme? Anyone here try it?



I get blood results back today or tomorrow on whether he has MTHR mutation. I looked at old tests and I have single mutation, so good chance he has that too.

Still waiting for Hansa to call back. So lost on what to do. He doesn't seem to be progressing on treatment thus far. This is week 14.

Thanks.

Augmentin is the same thing as Amoxicillin. I have a bottle of it sitting here, was supposed to take with the Flagyl, had to quit Flagyl so never too Amox.

Did you decide to not have him tested for that shortage I linked to you a couple of times? (And I cannot remember what that was right now).

Augmentin isn't quite the same thing - it has Amoxicillin plus Clavulanate.
Posted 2/14/2017 6:51 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks everyone,

Waiting for LLMD to call me back. Definitely not holding my breath on that one.

I don't know what to do. My intuition says no to IV right now.

I think I'll try the augmentin. Spoke to Hansa and will have to bite the bullet and take him there in March for two weeks. I'm at my wits end. He doesn't have years, he needs to be in school by next September.

Thanks for always helping me and always explaining things to me. I so appreciate you guys. Hugs to you all.
Posted 2/14/2017 7:00 PM (GMT 0)
I think that's a good call Huddie. Time for him to start feeling better. I am thinking that he's having trouble detoxing. Add puberty to the mix and that's likely why he feels so lousy.
Posted 2/14/2017 7:05 PM (GMT 0)

Girlie said...

julymorning said...

Huddie said...
Hi guys,

My son is on Mino/Zith/BB-MC Babs 1 and Jernigan Anti-Tox MS.

His symptoms as of yesterday were: back pain (possibly kidney), overall malaise, cough, headaches, depressed (I’m taking him to a Lyme Psych. tomorrow), constant stomach ache/nausea, phobias over eating and going to sleep. Giant fear of herxing because he hates them. Who doesn't.

Yesterday he was awful, hadn't slept and just in pain. I gave him nothing. No herbs and no abx. He feels so good today and was able to sleep 12 hours last night.

LLMD suggested switching to oral Augmentin or once a week injections of Biacillin (something like that). My son has never taken penicillin and my husband is allergic so don't want to try that.

How is Augmentin for Lyme? Anyone here try it?



I get blood results back today or tomorrow on whether he has MTHR mutation. I looked at old tests and I have single mutation, so good chance he has that too.

Still waiting for Hansa to call back. So lost on what to do. He doesn't seem to be progressing on treatment thus far. This is week 14.

Thanks.

Augmentin is the same thing as Amoxicillin. I have a bottle of it sitting here, was supposed to take with the Flagyl, had to quit Flagyl so never too Amox.

Did you decide to not have him tested for that shortage I linked to you a couple of times? (And I cannot remember what that was right now).

Augmentin isn't quite the same thing - it has Amoxicillin plus Clavulanate.

I have debated about this before. I have the bottle sitting right here and both abx have the Clavulanate in it. The only difference according to the bottle is that Amoxicillin is the generic of Augmentin.

I must have got lucky and was given a unique mixture because it clearly says it on the bottle.

Post Edited (julymorning) : 2/14/2017 12:08:07 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 2/14/2017 7:13 PM (GMT 0)
www.rxlist.com/augmentin-drug.htm

www.medicinenet.com/amoxicillinclavulanic_acid_tablet_875mg125mg/article.htm

The generic augmentin - should say amoxicillin/clavulanic acid.

The clavulanic acid is to help prevent resistance I think.

There is a generic one called Clavulin - and it contains amoxy and clavulanic acid.

Is that what you had?
Because amoxicillin - is just that - amoxicillin (from penicillin class)
Posted 2/14/2017 7:59 PM (GMT 0)
AUGMENTIN:

Spoke with LLMD's nurse. They are calling in Augmentin 850 mg. every eight hours. That sounds like alot.

Does anyone know, Girlie? yeah

Sorry. I'm so tired. He finally slept last night but I didn't sleep a wink just filled with worry and racing mind.

When we have a night where we both sleep I will send up fireworks!

His blood work isn't read yet so would you wait to see MHFR response before starting or should I just start him?

Today is the second day I haven't given him anything but today I gave herbs, lots of detox and having bodywork done.

Thanks guys.
Posted 2/14/2017 8:03 PM (GMT 0)
So, it's not 875? but 850?
Posted 2/14/2017 8:05 PM (GMT 0)
400-mg/57-mg Chewable Tablets: 400 amoxy and 57 clavulanic acid

or
liquid:
400 mg/57 mg per 5 mL Orange-flavored powder for oral suspension (each 5 mL of reconstituted suspension contains 400 mg amoxicillin and 57.0 mg of clavulanic acid as the potassium salt)


No, that dose he was prescribed isn't too much.

I took 3,000 amoxy daily. He is smaller, though...I will try to get the chart on body weight and how much amoxy.
Posted 2/14/2017 8:10 PM (GMT 0)
Wow Girlie you are like a walking abx encyclopedia! Yes 875 you are correct.

Just got partial blood tests back.

MTHFR not ready yet.

We both are high for Mycoplasma pneumoniae, Will is 302 on IgG (IgM is <770.
Mine is 569 on IgG and same, <770 on IgM

What is this?

We both tested negative for mold, parasites and Babesia (but I know that's not 100%) but makes me happy yeah
Posted 2/14/2017 8:11 PM (GMT 0)
Children: 50 mg/kg/day divided into q8h doses. (dr burrascano guidelines - amoxy)


I can do the calculation later if you want me to - just let me know what he weighs.
Posted 2/14/2017 8:12 PM (GMT 0)

Huddie said...
Wow Girlie you are like a walking abx encyclopedia! Yes 875 you are correct.

Just got partial blood tests back.

MTHFR not ready yet.

We both are high for Mycoplasma pneumoniae, Will is 302 on IgG (IgM is <770.
Mine is 569 on IgG and same, <770 on IgM

What is this?

We both tested negative for mold, parasites and Babesia (but I know that's not 100%) but makes me happy yeah

Okay - ignore the next post then...I also looked up chewables and liquid...
Posted 2/14/2017 8:14 PM (GMT 0)
Girlie,

I would love that!

He is 5' 2" and about 90 lbs.

Also, anything else he should be doing since it is now mono therapy?

Has anyone healed on mono + herbs? I'm pretty sure I'm taking him to Hansa for two weeks in March so it will all change anyway.

Who needs Europe or family vacations when you can go to the middle of nowhere, in the middle of winter, to do Lyme treatments for an exorbitant amount of money shakehead
Posted 2/14/2017 8:20 PM (GMT 0)
that is 40.8 kg.

so basically 40 X 50 per day.. = 2,000 mg daily....(check my math..lol)


So, he's close to the amount...at 875 x 2 = 1750 daily.

Re: mono therapy...maybe if he tolerates this...he can add a second one in a month?
Sometimes, the LLMD doesn't start a second one right away...it's alright to start one...and add the next month.
Posted 2/14/2017 8:36 PM (GMT 0)
Oh great. Thank you so much Girlie, I feel better about things now.

I'm going to start him tomorrow and just do that and herbs and alot more detox until Hansa.

You are so wonderful to us. I so appreciate it.
Posted 2/14/2017 8:37 PM (GMT 0)
You are welcome...heck I'm on here everyday - may as well make myself useful... tongue
Posted 2/14/2017 8:48 PM (GMT 0)
So useful! You guys are lifesavers. This is so challenging figuring out alone.
Posted 2/14/2017 10:21 PM (GMT 0)
Augmentin is often used for children I believe it is more gentle.

Monotherapy would be okay as long as you are using herbs too. So that you break away the cysts and other forms of lyme and co.

Mycoplasma is a coinfection huddle that is harder to get rid of so it is similar to babesia and bartonella. Buhner says it is the hardest coinfection to get rid of but you can get rid of it with herbs or antibiotics. It also is a scavenger so it is eating all of you and your sons nutrients. Also when you have mycoplasma and bartonella you will get very severe psychiatric symptoms. Not sure what happens when you have mycoplasma and babesia.

I know Horowitz says mthfr is important and it made my twins herxing much better. Is he on probiotics????
Posted 2/14/2017 10:21 PM (GMT 0)
Huddie

So sorry for all the challenges and suffering you and your son have had!

I think you know that there are people walking around who are asymptomatically infected. I've read about these situations countless times throughout my research.

What makes the difference between those who are asymptomatically infected, those infected and with mild symptoms or those infected and suffering horribly with symptoms?

The health of the immune system.

Members on here have written about family members who test positive yet have no symptoms. Their immune systems are keeping things in check.

Dr. Rawls is of the opinion that restorative therapy is most beneficial for those of us dealing with chronic illness.

Doing things to restore the health of the body as well as the immune system is what can make us win the battle against the bugs.

It sounds like Hansa provides restorative therapy.

If you ever start to have doubts about taking your son there, I highly suggest that you read Dr. Rawls' book.

Here's some info from his site:

/rawlsmd.com/health-articles/chronic-immune-dysfunction-lyme-disease

Good luck and trust your gut!!!
Posted 2/15/2017 1:30 AM (GMT 0)
Huddie that sounds like an excellent call....Hansa Center.

I don't know if I would give him one more thing outside of herbs until you get to the Hansa Center. It all just sounds like such a struggle for his body at this time.

Which testing co. did you do for your current results? As far as the mycoplasma that's another co. I was taking beyond balance myco formula for that. And I think banderol or cumanda from Cowden hits on it too. You should be covered with the Jernigan herbs. I know the Microbojen helps your body fight against everything.

You and your son are in my thoughts. Oh, try DGL for the nausea. I take the chewable tablets or the powder.
Posted 2/15/2017 7:45 AM (GMT 0)
Hi Huddie,

I actually think mono and herbs can work. My son was on doxy and Zithromax and beyond balance bab 2 for two months. Awful herx.

Then Zithromax and tried rifampin, but awful panic attacks -so just Zithromax and beyond balance bab 2 for 6 weeks.

Then Zithromax and Artesunate since beg December. Stopped BB bab 2(after 4 months) now on japanese knotweed and gou teng (uncaria rhyncophylla) since mid December -2 months.

Steady improvement! Going back to school. So Not many abx. Wished I had started jkw and gou teng earlier-they are great.

Starting houttuynia next week -very slowly because he is at school now and have to minimize herxes.

We are trying to find a balance of tx and quality of life.

My son has mycoplasma and chlamydia pneumoniae as well.

Wish you both healthier days!

Have you tried gou teng Huddie? Buhner strongly rec for neuroborrealis
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