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Posted 2/15/2017 7:01 PM (GMT 0)
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Post Edited (1000Daisies) : 5/14/2021 8:53:38 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 2/15/2017 7:40 PM (GMT 0)
I know what you are saying smile -- But, when I started doing the Buhner prootocol, I created a huge spreadsheet after I read his book. For me, I knew by blood work that I was dealing with Lyme and Mycoplasma... I knew I had either Bart or Babs ... perhaps both. As it turned out, it was Bart cause I started to see the scratch marks when I started the herbs.

The first thing I did was put herbs in the category of Lyme/Bart/Myco/Babs, and a description of what it was for. I put things in directly ties to my symptoms... then I began to take supportive herbs first, to help my body become stringer. I generally picked my worst symptom or an herb that crossed the most bacterial categories... if one herb was in there for Lyme/Myco/Bart instead of just Lyme.

I got about halfway on the number of herbs and then stopped cold turkey and decided to get help by going to Hansa Center... so I never completed that plan, but it was definitely doing something. I was struggling with Herx which is why I stopped and decided to reset.

Buhner's protocol resonated with me very well, but I became overwhelmed with binders, herbs, what supplements to take, etc. -- but it was a functional plan, hahahahahahahahahahaha

I am not as well read as many on this board, but I did read Buhner's book on Lyme (2nd edition) and Mycoplasma/Bartonalla co-infections, so I felt comfortable with my choices...
Posted 2/15/2017 7:43 PM (GMT 0)
This is why i love bee venom and rife gets them all...byron white has some ok formulations
Posted 2/16/2017 12:33 AM (GMT 0)
I hear you Daisies. I know Cowden herbs reach to many different infections and co-infections which is why I decided to add some of those in.

Also Jernigan does have a few that strengthen the body to overcome many of these infections. Like the 3 that Deejavu took, very cross cutting from a immune building aspect.
Posted 2/16/2017 2:44 AM (GMT 0)
Krimpet, what 3 did Deejavu take?
Posted 2/16/2017 3:05 AM (GMT 0)
Yes I need a protocol like this.

Bruhner core plus symptom add ins

Then coinfections core to cover at least the 3 .

Did someone say there's a bbb protocol.

I just ordered more herbs and am getting overwhelmed. Different forms and not enough time to research. And new symptoms daily. Like can't type because fingers numb and tingly.
Posted 2/16/2017 4:21 AM (GMT 0)
I did Buhner's lyme protocol with andrographis as the killer, and then for babs added in cryptolepis and for bart added in houttuynia.

But I did the core protocol for a long time and when I was super stable went for the babs and bart.
Posted 2/16/2017 5:31 PM (GMT 0)
I was told that I had every tick-borne infection back in 2007 by a good LLMD because of the number of symptoms I had and the severity of them. The more I researched, the more I realized that many of these "smaller" co-infections are treated by the same treatment as we get when we treat the three B's - Borrelia, Bartonella, and Babesia. And that's how I healed, with treatments targeting those three infections.

As you pointed out though, for some the co-infections will be more of a problem than Lyme, but Lyme treatment may very well take care of those infections. Lyme treatment usually takes care of Anaplasmosis and Ehrlichia, for example.

It may be that one person doesn't do well with one herb, but does better with something similar - my guess is that this is because of either the bacterial strain or the genetics of the person. I'm not sure we will know which it is until we at least get better testing for the infections so we know which strains we are actually dealing with.
Posted 2/16/2017 5:42 PM (GMT 0)
That's the what I like about herbs. Certain àntibiotics hit certain strains.

Herbs may hit them with less intensify but they supposedly hit all strains.

Kind of eliminates alot of guess work.
Posted 2/16/2017 5:49 PM (GMT 0)
I think that you are wise to consider the co-infections for the child that is not having much improvement on the core Lyme protocol. Try to figure out which symptoms are the strongest for that child and match that with which infections it would most likely be - then try treatment with that protocol.

I think we all wish there was an easier way to address the whole ball of wax!! I know I sure do!! LOL! The basic immune building and remodeling will be helpful no matter what infection you are treating though, I believe.
Posted 2/16/2017 6:05 PM (GMT 0)

1000Daisies said...

Purrrsiankitty said...
That's the what I like about herbs. Certain àntibiotics hit certain strains.

Herbs may hit them with less intensify but they supposedly hit all strains.

Kind of eliminates alot of guess work.

I agree about herbs. That is definitely an appeal to me. BUT - Kid#1 hasn't improved, even being on several core protocol herbs. So, it sounds good by theory, but clearly, they don't address everything - for him, at least. I'm hoping the different herbs for coinfections will make a difference for him.

I truly believe lyme is actually the least of our worries with our issues. I believe coinfections are worse for us than the lyme itself. But again - that's just my suspicions.

. I so agree with all you said. Supposedly is a BIG word here😐 btw, your family is in my thoughts and prayers.
Posted 2/16/2017 10:23 PM (GMT 0)

1000Daisies said...

Krimpet 🍔 said...
I hear you Daisies. I know Cowden herbs reach to many different infections and co-infections which is why I decided to add some of those in.

Also Jernigan does have a few that strengthen the body to overcome many of these infections. Like the 3 that Deejavu took, very cross cutting from a immune building aspect.

I was thinking of Cowden. I certainly loved the simplicity of a schedule already laid out, but there are things I don't like about it which is why I've generally stayed away from it.
I looked at his schedule, and he uses a ton of individual ones too, rotated over time. That seems rather comparative to Buhner.

I think a Buhner's version of the Cowden's schedule would be amazing.

I'm only using about 4-5 of his herbs.
Posted 2/16/2017 10:28 PM (GMT 0)

summer16 said...
Krimpet, what 3 did Deejavu take?

Borrelogen, Microbojen, and the CNS/PNS neuro antitox formula. I know she posted recently and answered a lot of questions. Also there is a link to her story. If I find it, I'll update this post.
Posted 2/17/2017 12:55 AM (GMT 0)
This is where enegetic models such as traditional Chinese medicine come in very handy. They allow you to focus on disease and treatment patterns as opposed to specifics. Unfortunately it's a very complex art, much of it has been lost in practice, and integrating with modern understandings can be difficult. You can also start learning how to make true formulas and switch out herbs in various categories as they work for you or don't. But I don't think you're going to find a one size fits all protocol. You know you need antiinflammatories, an antimicrobial, and immune modulator, etc. indentify the types of herbs you need and You can probably work with a competent herbalist and get a basic formula template that you tweak to your own needs combining what you know about Lyme herbs. Buhners overly specific approach is sort of an appeal to the western scientific mind. A lot of herbalism is more artistic in a way and doesn't require the level of obsessive detail to work with. But I'm not competent enough to tell you how to do it. I've just taken a few classes and read a lot on herbs and there is a lot of potential for sure
Posted 2/17/2017 1:47 AM (GMT 0)

Psilociraptor said...
This is where enegetic models such as traditional Chinese medicine come in very handy. They allow you to focus on disease and treatment patterns as opposed to specifics. Unfortunately it's a very complex art, much of it has been lost in practice, and integrating with modern understandings can be difficult. You can also start learning how to make true formulas and switch out herbs in various categories as they work for you or don't. But I don't think you're going to find a one size fits all protocol. You know you need antiinflammatories, an antimicrobial, and immune modulator, etc. indentify the types of herbs you need and You can probably work with a competent herbalist and get a basic formula template that you tweak to your own needs combining what you know about Lyme herbs. Buhners overly specific approach is sort of an appeal to the western scientific mind. A lot of herbalism is more artistic in a way and doesn't require the level of obsessive detail to work with. But I'm not competent enough to tell you how to do it. I've just taken a few classes and read a lot on herbs and there is a lot of potential for sure

I do agree regarding the TCM. I love that they don't look at specifics but the body as a whole. I remember when I used to see an acupuncturist trained in TCM and she used to stress about the importance of balance (qi, etc). This is of course before I knew what was going on with me, but she was definitely helpful in terms of my fatigue.

I'm looking into this again. I need someone to add to my team who is looking at the whole, and not treating primarily by symptoms but looking at what is missing, where are the imbalances?
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