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Posted 3/5/2017 5:06 PM (GMT 0)
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Post Edited (1000Daisies) : 5/14/2021 8:54:12 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 3/5/2017 5:25 PM (GMT 0)
I'm sorry Daisies. I can't tell you how much I am in awe of your balancing/juggling these treatments to fit yourself and at least two, maybe all 3 of your children as well. Individually. I'd have to have a spread sheet and a huge calendar to keep track......and so you have to realize how difficult it is for me (and whoever else) to figure this out at a glance.

I know you realize that while you speak of making adjustments based on each individual reaction you know in your head who you're specifically referring to or if you mean all 3 of you, I'm going to let someone else help you that has more clarity in their heads and willing to take a stab at this.

I am afraid I am limited to attempting to figure out only one person's issues at a time.
Posted 3/5/2017 5:30 PM (GMT 0)
You said you felt worse? Sure it wasn't a herx? Knotweed is a pretty strong antimicrobial in addition to those other things. I've had clear herxheimers from it. The key for me is to take small doses. Let the symptoms come on, let them go away, then increase the dose slightly and repeat.
Posted 3/5/2017 5:48 PM (GMT 0)
Just wanted to ask you about the Hawthorne. You said you don't think it's helped.

Were you looking at some specific symptoms?


Hawthorne could be working, but you may not know it. It is used to strengthen the heart and blood vessels.
and it helps protect against plaque forming in the blood vessels...
Posted 3/5/2017 7:03 PM (GMT 0)
Did you do the Red Sage and Skullcap at the same time???? I know that Buhner says to mix the two and take them and I actually did that....

In reality you should try one (like Red Sage) and do 1 drop and slowly move up. Then do the Skullcap the same way.

I really think the cykotine remodulators are important. However, the "recommended" dosage is just that - recommended and is that recommended for a 200 lb man?

So I agree with Psilo to cut back until you and the kids feel better - all at whatever dosage it takes.

As for the collagen - lyme lives on it. That is why lyme actively goes for joints. It is where the collagen lives. So replacement of the collagen is pretty darn important. Bone broth does this and so does collagen supplements. They are not harmful in anyway and your skin, nails and hair will love the extra you get.

I did not feel like the Hawthorn alone helped me so I added in Motherwort and was better. But I was also taking many other things including magnesium.

It is really hard to help someone else when you don't know everything they are taking and exactly how the symptoms came about and when.

I am helping my husband and it is difficult to get in his head and know how he feels exactly.

Anyway, those are my suggestions. I just know that you certainly have a lot on your plate and my thoughts are sure with you..... I can't even imagine.

Oh, naps really helped me. If hubby naps he has a horrible time at night.... We are all so different.
Posted 3/5/2017 9:30 PM (GMT 0)
Daisies I'm so sorry. This is a crazy, hard road. Personally when I tried those listed in #2, they didn't agree with me. Initially neither did JK, but I'm now able to handle it.

I would suggest to do the things that you can and that feel right to you. And later try to add things back in.

Many months ago I also tried to do a couple of the Jernigan botanicals, couldn't do those either and now I'm back to using 2, just ordered several others and plan to focus mainly on those. And still possibly continue with the Samento and JK.
Posted 3/6/2017 1:39 PM (GMT 0)

1000Daisies said...

Psilociraptor said...
You said you felt worse? Sure it wasn't a herx? Knotweed is a pretty strong antimicrobial in addition to those other things. I've had clear herxheimers from it. The key for me is to take small doses. Let the symptoms come on, let them go away, then increase the dose slightly and repeat.

Thanks for your reply!
But we've been on JK since the beginning (6+ months). We really don't react to these herbals as we've been on them at higher doses, unless we are just starting or go up too fast. I don't think it's the JK at this point (we noticed more reactions from JK in the first month).

This is different for me this time around after starting the cytokine remodulators. The symptoms usually pass, but I'm stuck with the pain so far after stopping the cytokine remodulators. Perhaps it needs more time. I'm not sure...

It doesn't have to be the knotweed necessarily. All of these plants are antimicrobials to one extent or another. Some are not significantly so to consider them such, but that doesn't mean in a particular individual with a particular infection it won't have that sort of effect. Skullcap in particular is a strong antimicrobial as well and is used widely to tried viral infections. It's also one of the few to have shown any efficacy in eradicating Lyme biofilms. Maybe it's not a herx, i just can't think of another reason why these herbs would cause pain.
Posted 3/6/2017 3:19 PM (GMT 0)
So based on what you are saying happened, I would say that those herbs may not be helpful for those people you are talking about.

"ESM (ethanol extract of Salvia miltiorrhiza) inhibited the production of pro-inflammatory cytokines via down-regulation of gene and protein expression whereas it increased the anti-inflammatory cytokines. Furthermore, ESM inhibited the expression of the chemokines, RANTES and CX3CL1, as well as of inflammatory mediators such as TLR-4 and 11β-HSD1."
/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22194712

I surely don't claim to understand how this all works, but it seems that Danshen lowers inflammation, but also increases it in certain ways.

And while the articles for Scutellaria baicalensis like this escape me this morning, I would bet that they are out there. There are reasons why some herbs may not be suitable for some - just like not all pharmaceuticals are suitable for every person.

It may be time to contact an herbalist that really understands these herbs to find out why and/or what to substitute.
Posted 3/6/2017 3:37 PM (GMT 0)
Daisies I have always believed in gut instincts that Mommas have. Mommas got it for a reason.

Go with your gut!
Posted 3/6/2017 3:37 PM (GMT 0)
"Please keep your fingers crossed for us." Of course - and always!!!!

I wish I understood the cytokine issues better too! But, I *think* I'm slowly getting there - but it's slowly getting there, unfortunately. A foggy brain surely doesn't help!

If you honestly feel that you or someone in your family needs those herbs, I would suggest that you try a phone call to one of the Buhner herbalists. They should understand this better than I do!

Best of luck in moving forward, Daisies!
Posted 3/6/2017 7:31 PM (GMT 0)
Chapter 15 of Rawls book, Unlocking Lyme, his core protocol does not have Red Sage in it. Just an FYI.
Posted 3/6/2017 10:33 PM (GMT 0)
I would suggest that you only 'do' one of you with the phone consult. If they get it right and things go well, you can always book another appt to discuss the others later.

And, don't forget, Buhner says many times that what he lays out is only a basic guideline - not everyone needs the full doses (although some may need more), and that we may not need everything he lists. His book was put out to cover the majority of people, not every person. smile
Posted 3/6/2017 10:39 PM (GMT 0)
Daisies, I found my herbalist with google. Now days herbalist are popping up all over the place. Mine is a shop about 45 minutes away. Which in my neck of the woods, is called going to town. LOL

I just stopped in and asked questions about stuff I KNEW. They were right on. So then I knew I could trust them with stuff I did not know.

Sneaky, but an effective interview.
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