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Babesia? thought it was bartonella

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Posted 4/6/2017 4:04 AM (GMT 0)
I've recently started Babesia treatment.... - Mepron, minocycline, zithromycin, Artemisinin. (I think that's it)

I am on the second 'round' now on the M/W/F and my left shoulder blade/arm/hand - nerve pain is flaring.

I wouldn't have thought it was Babesia...it's my very first symptom...but also one of my most stubborn symptoms.
I really thought it was a Bartonella symptom...unless those meds are hitting bart better then the Rifampin (unlikely)

And I'm vibrating like crazy. Thought that was also bart.

Feelings of anxiety as well...wonder if I will sleep tonight...


Holy moly.
Posted 4/6/2017 4:18 AM (GMT 0)
Dern girlie ..mepron depletes coq10 and is ruff on liver ...my step dad lasted 2.5 months ...keep us posted ...watch out for those blues
Posted 4/6/2017 5:25 AM (GMT 0)
I was thinking about the CoQ10 - and wondering if on my week off if I should supplement.


Have you not taken Mepron bluelyme?

Is it rougher on the liver than rifampin?
Posted 4/6/2017 8:03 AM (GMT 0)
my friend who sees dr k (the other one ) did for a while and her liver maxed out enzymes before eradication.(she is younger too 20s)..i did alinia for bit , artminesin and rife and of course my bee venom gets those apicomplexians pretty easily.

step dad got suuuuuuper depressed , migranes went away but he is gunna try malerone and rife next...
Posted 4/6/2017 12:09 PM (GMT 0)
Girlie, my shoulder pain and buzzing went away with bartonella treatment.

I know I mentioned it before but I still think it is bart that you have and not babesia. Like the vast majority of symptoms you have are the same as mine. I'm convinced I have bart and mycoplasma and some virus's left.

Who knows though for sure right without super accurate tests and doctors that only want a test to treat we are stuck taking our health in our own hands.

Have you considered just taking Buhner bartonella herbs at perhaps moderate to high doses for a time you are off antibiotics just to see if it can maintain your gains or maybe even bring you to a higher level? You know some people cannot get to the next level of wellness unless they stop taking antibiotics. That was the case for me.

I know you think pulsing is the way to go but keep in mind Doctor MR, and Buhner are both of strong opinion that bartonella needs continuous treatment. I know in my experience when I give Bart an inch it takes a mile and I can clearly feel that in my symptoms. I could be wrong though and there might be someway to pulse for Bart.

Just like blue said mepron is an oxidizing agent in the body and hard on mitochondria... we need those working in peak condition for our immune system. Doctor H also mentions the tetracycline class also damages mitochondria, and of course the fluroquinolones which are really hard on them.

Guess what? In one month it will be 1 year off antibiotics for me! Not cured but slowly feeling better with IMD and heavy metal detox these darn mercury fillings.
Posted 4/6/2017 12:32 PM (GMT 0)
Girlie,

I am so sorry you are going through bad herx. Ick.

Dr. J clinic did think that all three of us have Bart as worst symptom and not Babs, like we originally thought. So there may be something to that.

I'm sure you have read this but just in case, I found it helpful: http://www.gordonmedical.com/unravelling-complex-chronic-illness/bartonella-like-organisms-blo-consideration-signs-and-symptoms/

The good news is that they think Bart is much easier to heal, with Babs being the most stubborn.

Either way, and no matter what this mazy-mystery brings you, I hope you find some comfort today.

Hugs to you.
Posted 4/6/2017 1:03 PM (GMT 0)
I've also always equated most of those symptoms with Bart instead.

I'm so sorry to hear that you are herxing though!
Posted 4/6/2017 1:31 PM (GMT 0)
I think its quite hard to draw these direct correlations beyond saying I took X and Y happened. What specifically is happening is guesswork at best. Maybe the bart and babs are synergistically causing some issues and when you clear one out the other doesn't have as much punch. Maybe by clearing out some babesia your immune system can better attack the bartonella. Might as well throw a dart blindfolded ;)

What's positive is you are getting reaction to the protocol that isnt' just your normal symptoms.

Huddie I don't agree that Bartonella is easier to get rid of than Babesia. No way. Everyone I know who's got both way more folks have shaken Babesia than Bartonella. My sister-in-law sees Dr. Gordon in CA and she's got multiple strains of Bart and hasn't been able to shake it in 15 years.
Posted 4/6/2017 1:47 PM (GMT 0)
Rikky,

I have always heard the opposite as well; that Babs is more stubborn.

I was merely relating what I was told by Dr. J clinic.

Since we have both it doesn't matter to me.

I want all visitors gone and then putting up a big 'no vacancy' sign.
Posted 4/6/2017 1:58 PM (GMT 0)
Honestly, symptoms of the 3 B's overlap so much, I think it's likely you'll be healed one day and still not be sure what the main cause was.

If the Babesia meds are creating a herx, I would continue with those.
Keep an eye out for the emergence of some of the tell-tale symptoms like chills (not vibrating) or night sweats.

I have read anxiety is very common with Babesia.

What ever came of that test you had done here that showed Bartonella?
Posted 4/6/2017 2:49 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks everyone. Yes it could be stubborn Bart (positive pcr last October) and possibility of reinfection the previous spring (sick cat bit me) coinciding with a period of inconsistent Bart treatment = stupidity)

I have stopped Bart treatment before and not felt like this so that's why I'm thinking this is Babs herx or this combo is killing Bart (but unlikely)rather than Bart just being unchecked and worsening.

Uptick in sweating too - not drenching tho but more often.
Posted 4/6/2017 3:11 PM (GMT 0)
LP - I've taken buhner herbs for Bart for several months - no change on fairly high doses... but will most likely take them again after Abx or as I'm weaning off them.

I do believe that I could have Babs but surprised with herx including what I thought was bart symptoms. But whatever it is - it's reacting to this protocol.

After the length of time I spent treating Bart - I think it is wise to treat Babs - and this is something that many LLMD's do when you've stalled on your treatment - they treat the one you haven't and see what response you have.
Well I had a response - just surprised it flared what I thought was Bart symptoms.
AND - Dr H and Dr J talk about treating all three B's no matter what the symptoms are .
Dr H talks about asymptomatic Babesia in a patient he treated who wasn't getting well - and she got well (was in a wheelchair)

If I had gone to Dr J or Dr H - I'd bet that the first thing they'd say was I needed to treat Babesia.

Maybe Bart will need more treatment after - IDK.
Posted 4/6/2017 3:17 PM (GMT 0)
Huddle - Yes - I will be putting up a No Vacancy sign when this is all over. Thanks, I giggled when I read that (through my tears)

I do appreciate all your responses - I'd be lost without you guys!
Posted 4/6/2017 3:23 PM (GMT 0)
...and while I was treating bart - for several months, I did rounds of Artemisinin...and had a what appeared to be herxes - the worst one being on my first round...and then they got less and less.
I'm now wondering if the Art alone just wasn't enough...and it was babs.
Posted 4/6/2017 3:24 PM (GMT 0)
And - about the pulsing. That is something I do believe in - even for the co-infections.

LP - after a year off antibiotics - what symptoms do you still have now?
Posted 4/6/2017 3:25 PM (GMT 0)
woke up this morning with a sweating episode....and now out of bed, my shoulder blade area feels good...no pain at the moment...and it was bad when I went to bed last night.

Hope it continues.
Posted 4/6/2017 3:34 PM (GMT 0)
Girlie - not sure how old you are, but I'm wondering if the sweating could be hormonal? I've started using a progesterone cream because when I wake up I would break out in a sweat if I didn't immediately kick off most of the covers. The cream has helped. Just a thought since I'm clearly no expert! I'm not menopausal yet - kind of wish I was lol. Really tired of perimenopause.
Posted 4/6/2017 4:18 PM (GMT 0)
Yes, it could be hormonal.

The same time lyme hit me - my estrogen tanked.

I tried the bioidentical hormone replacement - both estrogen and progesterone...and that's when my symptoms exploded. I know it could be coincidence...but I do know they never helped me. I tested my levels...and they did go up significantly...but no change in symptoms.

I retried just the progesterone about a year later...no help

...and just recently tried it again...no help.

My sweats have been very minor until this Babesia treatment...ramped them up a tad.
Posted 4/6/2017 4:31 PM (GMT 0)
YAY for some improvement!! I hope it sticks with you!
Posted 4/6/2017 5:17 PM (GMT 0)
I forgot about something.

In the past two weeks, sitting in my epsom salt bath...I see a spotted rash (can't feel it) on the top of my right foot...twice...about a week apart.

Could be bart or Babs...but this is after starting Mepron.
Posted 4/7/2017 1:14 AM (GMT 0)
Girlie -

As you know, I've been on abx AND/OR herbs for 4 yrs now. I thought I was done w/ abx for Lyme & Bart and then stirred up trouble w/ biofilm-busting… after busting the biofilms nearly all of my Lyme & Bart sx came back (not severely) but calmed down a few months later.

However, now Babs sx have flared. It was my 3rd most prominent group of sx so I've not treated it actively thus far, other than w/ A-Bab or MC-BAB. And of course, I can't get a positive test.

My Lyme nurse mentioned she thought it was flaring because there is a calmer landscape, meaning, it isn't competing w/ the other prominent infections and probably taking advantage of a weakened immune function.

WHO KNOWS?? I don't think we really know what we have, especially knowing that the main carriers of TBD are rodents. Think about how much filth is swimming around in a wild mouse's blood.

Also wanted to mention that you've referenced your shoulder pain as a metric for a specific infection flaring. It could be that nerve pain like that is a response to inflammation, and the inflammation could be caused by any infection flare. My neurologist suggested to me that most neurological issues his Lyme patients come in with are caused primarily by inflammation. So I was wondering if the shoulder pain isn't necessarily tied to bart or babs, specifically.

And… I wanted to mention that after all the treating I've done for the past 4 yrs, I still have 3 different kinds of lesions popping up. And in my limited research about them, no one knows why they show up or what it means. I think it's the infections or the toxins from them or die-off moving throughout the body.

-p
Posted 4/7/2017 1:35 AM (GMT 0)

Pirouette said...
Girlie -

As you know, I've been on abx AND/OR herbs for 4 yrs now. I thought I was done w/ abx for Lyme & Bart and then stirred up trouble w/ biofilm-busting… after busting the biofilms nearly all of my Lyme & Bart sx came back (not severely) but calmed down a few months later.

However, now Babs sx have flared. It was my 3rd most prominent group of sx so I've not treated it actively thus far, other than w/ A-Bab or MC-BAB. And of course, I can't get a positive test.

My Lyme nurse mentioned she thought it was flaring because there is a calmer landscape, meaning, it isn't competing w/ the other prominent infections and probably taking advantage of a weakened immune function.

WHO KNOWS?? I don't think we really know what we have, especially knowing that the main carriers of TBD are rodents. Think about how much filth is swimming around in a wild mouse's blood.

Also wanted to mention that you've referenced your shoulder pain as a metric for a specific infection flaring. It could be that nerve pain like that is a response to inflammation, and the inflammation could be caused by any infection flare. My neurologist suggested to me that most neurological issues his Lyme patients come in with are caused primarily by inflammation. So I was wondering if the shoulder pain isn't necessarily tied to bart or babs, specifically.

And… I wanted to mention that after all the treating I've done for the past 4 yrs, I still have 3 different kinds of lesions popping up. And in my limited research about them, no one knows why they show up or what it means. I think it's the infections or the toxins from them or die-off moving throughout the body.

-p

Yes, you're right - inflammation of the nerves...regardless of which infection...

I was thinking damage to my nerves...that just need time to heal ....but the symptoms do flare when I'm hitting it hard with treatment. Again...could be inflammation from whichever infection.
Posted 4/7/2017 1:35 AM (GMT 0)

1000Daisies said...

Mustard Seed said...
Honestly, symptoms of the 3 B's overlap so much, I think it's likely you'll be healed one day and still not be sure what the main cause was.

^ This. I often times feel the same way.

Girlie - hang in there! smile

Thanks, 1000Daisies. I'm hanging , I'm hanging....
Posted 4/7/2017 1:37 AM (GMT 0)

1000Daisies said...

Girlie said...
I forgot about something.

In the past two weeks, sitting in my epsom salt bath...I see a spotted rash (can't feel it) on the top of my right foot...twice...about a week apart.

Could be bart or Babs...but this is after starting Mepron.

FWIW - Kid#1 got "little red dots" rash after starting Mepron. I asked my doctor, and he said to stop it (was concerned about an allergic reaction). At the time, there was really little information about this on the internet, but my gut (and from very little information on the net) said it was a sign of babesia. We stayed on Mepron, and they went away.

Fast forward years later... Kid#2 has not taken Mepron (it still sits in my cupboard taunting me to have him take it...), but I FINALLY gave him the Woodland Essence CSA to target suspected babesia. He also got little dots (he thought they were bug bites) but went away quickly.

So, I definitely am a believer in babesia and the little red dots... for my kids, at least.

The red dots went away really quick...like within an hour. They show up in the same spot...on the same foot.
Posted 4/7/2017 1:48 AM (GMT 0)
1000Daisies -

"So, I definitely am a believer in babesia and the little red dots... for my kids, at least."

Very interesting. I would describe one of the lesion type I have as the petechiae-type with a splodge of tiny perfectly-round red dots on each shin. And the skin feels warm to tough - only there, not anywhere else on my legs. And they show up suddenly and fade only months later.

I just started CSA too. I felt nothing so far - up to 10 drops/day.

-p

Post Edited (Pirouette) : 4/6/2017 7:51:08 PM (GMT-6)

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