stages of lyme

How long does the acute stage of lyme last? If there is swelling in the joints, has the disease progressed to the chronic stage?

From a WebMD article, I saw that lyme is considered in the acute stage for only 1-4 weeks. I was surprised it was such a short period of time & wondered if that is the consensus of opinion.

The issue of "stages" sounds to me like something the IDSA conjured up to minimize the seriousness of early infection. I had neuro symptoms two weeks after I pulled a tick out of the back of my head. It was several weeks later that I had the so called "flu-like" illness that may have been characterized as "acute". I started abx 6 weeks after the tick bite and treated for two years to achieve remission. At the time I thought it was gone but it wasn't - I relapsed about a year later.

I don't think it's possible to label these infections in terms of stages at all. Just my opinion relative to my own experience but it really drives me crazy to hear it characterized that way. It's because I was told that neuro & cardiac involvement are later manifestations of the disease that I didn't seek out treatment for the tick bite & I foolishly waited for symptoms. That was 25 years ago. If I had a clue about the reality I would have gotten myself treated & may not have gone chronic.

ChickenArise said...
Octobrsky13:"The issue of "stages" sounds to me like something the IDSA conjured up to minimize the seriousness of early infection...."



Agreed. There is the infected but your immune system is battling asymptomatic stage however long it may last, the showing symptoms but not compromised stage, the compromised stage, the new infection stage which has many sub-stages of the same if left untreated (the how low can you go stage) , recovery, and healing.

No time frames can be placed on your journey to healed stage and no guarantee that its final and you wont hit the relapse stage if you don't focus on building the immune system and detox.

Yes. I really think that anyone bitten by an infected tick is already, in a sense, "chronic", in most cases. The best outcome is to be treated immediately after the bite. After symptoms manifest, all bets are off. It's just a battle that may result in eradication or permanent remission but, as you say, the focus on immune system building is key, and doesn't end at remission.

Traveler - I understand that tick borne illness is progressive and so technically, yes, there are stages. What I have a problem with is the way those stages are labeled - that when medical professionals discuss the stages it's done in a way that is dangerous and misleading. They say it starts with a rash (possibly) followed by flu-like illness and that neuro & cardiac involvement are late manifestations, occurring months to years later. As you've said dissemination can occur immediately - as it pretty much did for me & I know my case isn't unique - and dissemination = chronic. Others who are new to this world can be lulled into a false sense of security, as I was, if they believe there is "time" before they become chronic. I guess because of my experience I'm an alarmist now & just don't ever want anyone else to be mislead.

Burrascano says that:

A very important issue is the definition of “Chronic Lyme Disease”.

Based on my clinical data and the latest published information, I offer the following definition.

To be said to have chronic LB, these three criteria must be present:

1.Illness present for at least one year (this is approximately when immune breakdown attains clinically
significant levels).

2. Have persistent major neurologic involvement (such as encephalitis/encephalopathy, meningitis, etc.)
or active arthritic manifestations (active synovitis).

3.Still have active infection with B. burgdorferi (Bb), regardless of prior antibiotic therapy (if any)

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Sorry to say, but I had neurologic symptoms few months after the tick bite (like losing ability to move and stand up, for example, like having a total hard neck that I the acupuncturist could not fit needles, sciatica bouts that I never had had before...).

about a month after doxy, I started having arthritis, and that exactly brought me to think it could be lyme!
So it took less than 3 months to get arthritis for me. And it just went downwards after. Very fast.

We today know that Bb can infect the brain very fast, in a matter of minutes after the tick bite.

Even Burrascano would say I was still not chronic because all that happened in less than 6 months?

Or does that mean that is not possible to have severe neuro and arthritic symptoms in 2, 3 months after first bite?

Well, both my daughter and I had severe symptoms very fast, in a matter of weeks or couple of months.

She was still a young child, had severe arthritis very fast after her first tick bite!

And she was bitten on the head, so you can imagine she was having eye floaters, strange sounds, many neuro symptoms rather fast too.

My 'first stage' acute lyme was an EM rash and ONLY THAT. I had zero other symptoms.
I didn't feel ill, absolutely no flu-like symptom.

A couple of months after doxy, I fell down to the point of not being able to walk.

Do we fit in the picture?

Sincerely, I never felt any of such 'classifications' fitted our family.

I think it's Horowitz saying he makes some distinction between acute and chronic, but he doesn't think 1st, 2nd, 3rd phase really exists either.

It doesn't really matter much, I think.

Treat the bite, treat lyme, no matter which stage you are.

Are you symptomatic or not, that is what matters, I feel.

After getting bitten so many times ON TOP of chronic lyme, where would Burrascano put us?

However I do feel every new re-infection comes like a RAGE: the pathogens come more virulent.
So I increase the herbs, the treatments, if that happens.

Maybe that is what he means by acute phase....
Even if, in our case, it was overlapped by chronic lyme too?

I wonder what's the use of all that stiff classification...