Has anyone used Biaxin AND Zithro simultaneously? Bart in lungs?

I have seen a very small amount of people on both.

I experimented adding Manganese for 3 days and although I cannot say its related I felt some Bart like skin itching and the pain in my lung came back and has been on and off for 4 days.

Face skin is very dry and I am thinking about going back on the biaxin because I have less side effects on it.

Neither one of these medications have resolved this issue. Just when I think it has. It comes back. Nothing as severe as it once was but it just doesnt want to resolve.

I think I have been on one or the other for about 6 months. I am considering hitting it with both or going back on Biaxin because I dont have side effects with Biaxin.

Could Bart be in my lungs? Borellia? I dont think it is CPN.

I would have expected ozone treatments to have obliterated any lung bacteria. Not quite yet.

Spleen improving to almost a non issue. Eyes are not perfect but not bugging out after the long course of Mino alternating with Doxy. Knee joints ache intermittently even after ozone injections but improving. Calves are sore, but I could learn to live with that.

I don't see the benefit of taking two macrolides at the same time. The only major difference between those meds are the volume of distribution and half life 4 and taking both concurrently would reduce the effectiveness of each while increasing potential adverse reactions. A better way to utilize those two would be to take Azithromycin for a period of time and then switch to Clarithromycin. You get much better tissue and structure penetration with Azithromycin and would attack susceptible pathogens there and then switching to Clarithromycin would attack susceptible pathogens in serum/blood because it has higher concentrations there.

Chicken, I'll go out on a limb and say you aren't dealing with just Lyme, you have toxoplasma, mycoplasma, babesia, or some other untreated pathogen in addition to EBV or other viral pathogens. I don't feel bartonella comes into play unless you have one or more of these other pathogens.

ChickenArise said...

Girlie, I had to bail on the Rifampin as I know now it was for sure causing me spleen issues. My spleen is much happier after stopping. I will likely go full herbal on the Bart.

This tells me you may have a blood borne pathogen and the Rifampin killed so much of it that you couldn't detox fast enough. The spleen is a very high blood flow organ and a bottleneck of blood flow there would be a disaster. This may also indicate biofilm producing pathogens are present.

ChickenArise said...


Girlie, I had to bail on the Rifampin as I know now it was for sure causing me spleen issues. My spleen is much happier after stopping. I will likely go full herbal on the Bart.

Are you sure it wasn't a die-off of the Bart causing the spleen issues?

goshawk said...
Try Bactrim with zith for bartonella . I was taking it and it hit bart good until I had to take break from abx to heal yeast issue.

I may have to but I must admit I am frightened by the possibility of permanent nerve damage. I wonder how long it took for those who had the negative side effect to be able to tell that something wasn't right and to stop taking it.

I am wondering what my herb choices are and how successful this route has been for Bart. I was a lot braver before I experience the following spleen issues with Rifamin.

Georgia Hunter said...

ChickenArise said...

Girlie, I had to bail on the Rifampin as I know now it was for sure causing me spleen issues. My spleen is much happier after stopping. I will likely go full herbal on the Bart.

This tells me you may have a blood borne pathogen and the Rifampin killed so much of it that you couldn't detox fast enough. The spleen is a very high blood flow organ and a bottleneck of blood flow there would be a disaster. This may also indicate biofilm producing pathogens are present.

I appreciate the reply. The different perspectives go a long way in helping me to remain objective.

On the 17th june I began Rifampin. On Day 2, I was up to 300mg bid. I kept asking myself daily "Where is the herx?"

I experienced the increased anxiety initially as well as the orange pee. Two weeks into the medication, I began to feel a discomfort in the spleen. It was not terribly painful but like an intermittent muscle ache. It was never constant rather short and infrequent, but the pain happened often enough that I was concerned the spleen had become infected. I had never felt anything in this area prior to.

I continued to take it as I didn't associate this with Rifampin. I just logged the recurring yet intermittent pain in my health diary and continued to take in until 24th July when I discovered that an enlarged spleen was a very rare complication that extremely few will suffer while using this medication. I quit taking it for safety sake as intuition said this has never felt like action against invaders.

Before knowing all of this I had been puzzled as to why there was pain and why it felt a bit larger under my left rib cage than right.

A short while after cessation the pain became less frequent and milder. It still feels as if it could be slightly enlarged and is tender for a moment at times but so much less.

I could find no information which said the spleen could return to its correct size and condition upon discontinuation of Rifampin. It has been long enough that the drug should be out of my system.

So although it may be possible, I have to error on the side of caution.

Georgia Hunter said...
Not saying it happened, but just a thought, biofilms release pathogens over time and Rifampin does have antiprotozoal activity. Perhaps it hit one of the life cycles of the protozoans? I don't think that is high on the list of things that could happen, but something to think about.

I think to get well, we must do many things and one of them is to increase the number of villi in our GI tract. This requires more methylation and DNA production but too much methylation is a bad thing. Finding the sweet spot is optimal. When we get sick, out body shuts down methylation as low as possible to prevent a ramped up immune response and more oxidative stress.

I was doing the 14 day on/off cycles of Tinidazole which should have hit the protozoans. I didn't herx often from it but in the first two days there was herxing going on for sure.

Nothing from the Rifampin other than the side effect after two weeks of use and worsening after 6 weeks of use.

I would have liked to continue on the Rifampin as I bought a couple month supply because shipping is a bit complicated here.

I know side effects can be difficult to distinguish from desired action but this has all the markings of serious side effects.

The spleen discomfort has mostly gone, but today I touched my toes from a seated position and could feel some discomfort here as I must be compressing it when I do so.

I am having troublesome complications from the Zithro which I thought was the mino/doxy. Expanding area of dry and now itchy facial skin areas. It is too uncomfortable to ignore and press on.

Its amazing how various itches from various causes can feel somewhat different, but am at a loss for adjectives to distinguish them.

I am bowing out of the antibiotics use and its already been a couple days of Zithro and over a week off of Mino/Doxy.

I didn't have any noticeable side effects from Biaxin during the 3 months I used it prior to switching to Zithro so if I need to, I may go that route.

I am shifting to probiotic and goat kefir while I regroup and devise another Bart strategy which will likely involve Sida Acuta and company.

I never really cared for L-Arganine but have started it again just to throw a wrench into the Bart production in the mean time.

birthdaysuit said...
I took these two for two weeks on accident, I was original suppose to sto pZithro but I didn't. I have Lyme, Bart and Myco and Babesia. I had never felt better. All my sweating spells and skin pain dissapeared. The problem was I wasn't suppose to take both at the same time so I stopped and the symptoms slowly returned.

Very curious. Thanks for sharing this.

There may be an alternating protocol which might be safer taking into account the long half life of Zithro. For now I am going back on Biaxin tonight. This would be 3 days since stopping Zithro.

I will be paying attention for side effects from the very few who did this.

My first attempt at the lung issue was 3 months Biaxin. I only switched to Zithro as I felt I couldn't get over a hump with the Biaxin. Maybe it was too soon to switch. I was on Zithro for a bit over 2 months.

I am hoping since they are both of the same class that it will be as if I never stopped treatment and that I didnt increase the chance of resistance to both by doing this.

I doubt I will go back on the Zithro for any length of time unless I run out of Biaxin.