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Can you guys help me parse out a lyme protocol?

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Posted 8/22/2017 8:05 PM (GMT 0)
I've tested positive for bart and myco and am on the full Buhner protocol for those. However, i have tested positive for lyme band 41 only so my (former) herbalist said to take a few lyme herbs just to be safe. The problem is i have issues with cat's claw, it seems to make some existing problems worse. It just sort of doesn't feel right, plus i muscle tested it and got a resounding "no"
So the only lyme specific herbs im on currently are Knotweed, 3 Tbsp/day and andrographis, 1200mg 3x/day. My herbalist said stopping cat's claw is fine and to consider adding teasel. Is that enough? Here's what i currently take:

J.K.
Sida Acuta
Houttinoyia
Isatis
Alchornea
Chinese Skullcap
Cordyceps
Red Root
EGCG
Hawthorn
Andrographis

Am i missing a vital component in the lyme protocol by not using cst's claw? I know Buhner speaks about the most important thing being to disrupt the cytokine cascade and I'm not sure if i am doing that. I am thinking about adding kudzu or greater celandine because this whole disease is in my brain but i know those are satellite herbs. I have to be $ conscious since im already taking so many things but dont want to miss anything vital.

Thanks for any help
Posted 8/22/2017 9:04 PM (GMT 0)
Try Red Sage for the cytokine cascade.

Ashwagandha and/or Eleutherococcus for Immune Remodulation

And if I were you, I would add in some collagen rebuilding. I use Hydrolyzed Collagen Protein Powder by Protein Essentials. But there are many different kinds you can use.

I picked this one because it doesn't taste. You can mix it with anything. Hubby and I put ours in our coffee every morning and then in a smoothie snack sometimes during the day. I have even put it in soup in the winter.
Posted 8/22/2017 9:10 PM (GMT 0)
Collagen i got down, i make my own bone broth and take high doses of vitamin c.

Does cat's claw fall under cytokine remodulation or immune modulation? Does one get the same benefit by replacing one herb with another from the same category?

Thanks, PeteZa
Posted 8/22/2017 9:17 PM (GMT 0)
Buhner has cat's claw under immune remodulation.

I recommended Red Sage because you are only taking the Skullcap. Buhner likes Skullcap taken with Red Sage for the cytokine remodulation and I noticed you did not have it on your list.

We are all different and each will have different responses. Since I have been on this forum, I have seen many that cannot take any from one category at all. I could not take Sida Acuta or Eleutherococcus. I have no idea why. I just skipped over those and moved on and still healed.

Check out this article on Lion's Mane for the brain. I love the benefit of mushrooms. /draxe.com/lions-mane-mushroom/?rs_oid_rd=89601608744527&utm_source=promotional&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20170821_newsletter_curated_multivitamin
Posted 8/22/2017 9:35 PM (GMT 0)
I too notice you're missing ashwaganda. Also NAC would be beneficial. NAC and EGCG overlap in some areas but not in others like a Venn diagram.

You also have have four antibacterials in your list. Don't quote me but you may not need all 4. What it seems like you are doing is reading each protocol individually and then adding them together. If you read Buhner's natural antibiotics book you can get a better sense of what works across different species of bacteria and you can prevent possible redundancy.

Post Edited (dacarte3) : 8/22/2017 3:39:06 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 8/22/2017 10:56 PM (GMT 0)

PeteZa said...
Buhner has cat's claw under immune remodulation.

I recommended Red Sage because you are only taking the Skullcap. Buhner likes Skullcap taken with Red Sage for the cytokine remodulation and I noticed you did not have it on your list.

We are all different and each will have different responses. Since I have been on this forum, I have seen many that cannot take any from one category at all. I could not take Sida Acuta or Eleutherococcus. I have no idea why. I just skipped over those and moved on and still healed.

Check out this article on Lion's Mane for the brain. I love the benefit of mushrooms. /draxe.com/lions-mane-mushroom/?rs_oid_rd=89601608744527&utm_source=promotional&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20170821_newsletter_curated_multivitamin

I have found that i also have trouble with the particular area of immune remodulation. In the past I'd taken licorice and ashwaganda and didn't feel quite right on them. I was thinking of trying eleuthero but understand that is also immune modulation. This protocol can get brutally expensive buying so many things and taking the time to test them all.
I'll look into red sage
Posted 8/22/2017 11:40 PM (GMT 0)

dacarte3 said...
I too notice you're missing ashwaganda. Also NAC would be beneficial. NAC and EGCG overlap in some areas but not in others like a Venn diagram.

You also have have four antibacterials in your list. Don't quote me but you may not need all 4. What it seems like you are doing is reading each protocol individually and then adding them together. If you read Buhner's natural antibiotics book you can get a better sense of what works across different species of bacteria and you can prevent possible redundancy.

I took NAC for about 2 years with no improvements so in the interest of saving money I was omitting it now- though i never took it with this whole protocol.

Adding the bartonella and mycoplasma protocols is exactly what im doing, is that ill advised? The antimicrobial he recommends for mycoplasma is Isatis and for bart he recommends an Isatis/Houttuynia/Alchornea blend... so i was taking all 3. I don't believe he said in the book that any of those cross over each other.
For lyme i am on andrographis but my herbalist mentioned teasel, too. Not sure if i need that as well. There are just so, so many herbs in these protocols if you have multiple infections and for those of us who can't work it's astronomical.
Posted 8/23/2017 12:26 AM (GMT 0)
We certainly are guinea pigs.

I did first address my most horrible symptoms and hit them with herbs. Then I went with Buhner's core protocol.

At the end I did Babs, Myco and Bart treatment.

That is just how I did it. That doesn't make it right by the way. I think I got lucky.
Posted 8/23/2017 12:26 AM (GMT 0)
How about gou teng? Which category does that fall under in the order of treatments? I considered it but it's wildly expensive but i feel i need something that targets my brain inflammation, so it's between that and kudzu. However i don't even know if i *have* lyme.
Posted 8/23/2017 12:29 AM (GMT 0)

PeteZa said...
We certainly are guinea pigs.

I did first address my most horrible symptoms and hit them with herbs. Then I went with Buhner's core protocol.

At the end I did Babs, Myco and Bart treatment.

That is just how I did it. That doesn't make it right by the way. I think I got lucky.

May i ask how long it took before feeling any improvement?
Posted 8/23/2017 12:37 AM (GMT 0)
Months! Hubby healed faster than I did though.

I was so impatient.

It is not something you can think of in time. You will be done when you are done. No one can really predict the timeline.

I was a super organic eater before lyme. I was a detoxer way before lyme. I was retired when I got lyme. I had no huge stress things when I had lyme. I had an awesome support member (hubby) when I got lyme. I totally focused on healing my lyme and did not do much else. I responded "no" to all family functions. I just detoxed every day all day long, and I took my herbs.

Getting well was my JOB! I was blessed to have all those other things.

I feel for people that have kids to look after. That have jobs. That are a boss and have to think. If I had to get lyme it was better for me to get it at the time I did than when I was working in my high-pressure-cooker-time-sensitive job that was 10-11 hour days.

You really can't compare people to people. So many factors come into play.
Posted 8/23/2017 1:35 AM (GMT 0)
That makes it tough, that it takes so long to feel any improvement you don't know until then if you are on the right cocktail

Focusing on my health is the only thing ive done for 6.5 years and is my only option, im too mentally and physically disabled for anything else. If i read my story in a book I'd call bullcrap and say thats not real. I expended all resources several years ago but still had no answers and even had to sneak out of a hospital at night because they couldn't find anything and were going to commit me to a psych ward. I've been homeless for a few years now and haven't seen any doctors since then, just don't have the $. Hence, i have to work with the last tests i had and forge forward on my own.

Im an "all in" kind of person so waiting so many months and still wondering if im even doing the right thing is diffiicult for me, but i know you cant speed up nature. I just want to cover all my bases just in case.

Thank you for the suggestions.
Posted 8/24/2017 2:57 AM (GMT 0)

Aerose91 said...

I took NAC for about 2 years with no improvements so in the interest of saving money I was omitting it now- though i never took it with this whole protocol.

Just out of curiosity. How do you know if NAC showed no improvements? Which improvements were you seeking? Just would like to know, so I can make a similar observation, whether or not it is "working".
Posted 8/24/2017 3:40 AM (GMT 0)
I have a slew of serious nervous system and brain ailments. Dissociation, psychosis, hallucinations, dementia type symptoms, spacial problems, light sensitivity, confusion, exercise intolerance, emotional apathy/void, inability to feel time passage. Etc... the list goes on and on

NAC (nor anything) touched any of those symptoms. I tried it by itself, with vitamin c, with ALA... nada
Posted 8/24/2017 9:15 PM (GMT 0)

Aerose91 said...
I have a slew of serious nervous system and brain ailments. Dissociation, psychosis, hallucinations, dementia type symptoms, spacial problems, light sensitivity, confusion, exercise intolerance, emotional apathy/void, inability to feel time passage. Etc... the list goes on and on

NAC (nor anything) touched any of those symptoms. I tried it by itself, with vitamin c, with ALA... nada

I see. For those symptoms it didn't help.
Posted 8/25/2017 4:07 AM (GMT 0)
Aerose,
I so feel for you. It's late tonight, but I will take another look at this and another recent post of yours tomorrow, Lord willing. I want to give you some feedback and see if I can help. I remember you said you suffered from mold exposure, too. Can you tell me if you did any kind of treatments for the mold? Also, do you have any of Buhner's books or are you getting his protocols from the web or elsewhere? How long ago did you start Buhner's protocol?
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